Türk Düşmanları İle Ön-Türk Tarihi Hakkında Bir Tartışma

[TurkmenCopur]

Why should I? I've heard rumours of Uygurs supporting the Turks in whatever they are doing, if it involves Kurds or not. I simply don't give a shit about their religious background, but I know which game Turkey and the Turks are playing right now

You are a disgrace to human kind. You are committing a clear hate crime against Turks. People with such schizophrenic personalities are not reliable people, and every word coming out of their mouth is a LIE. Why is it that the Western European and American media does not give any kind of attention to the genocide which is being conducted against the Uygur Turks in Xinjiang? The PKK is obviously a terrorist organization, why do the Western European and American media talk about a terrorist organization as if they are "freedom fighters", and why does no country care for what happens about the Uygur Turks in China? Is it maybe because of their hate crime feelings against the Noble Turk Nation, and is it maybe because of their fear for the inevitable Turk Union which is ready to HAPPEN? Are the Uygur Turks killing, or even try to kill Chinese soldiers located in China? No! Then i ask again, why is it that internationally no one cares about the Uygur Turks, except the Turks in Türkiye? I think these questions are clearly retorical, no answer is necessary.

[TurkmenCopur]

I knew Turks had a hard on at creating a Sphere Of Influence in Central Asia, but now they just took it to a whole new level.
Making China your enemy is not a wise decision, I'm glad they were stupid enough to go that road.

Learn from the historical events, and see what happened to the Chinese and the Roman states when the Turks unified, and BE AFRAID of the INEVITABLE TURK UNION. I advise China, to rethink their police strategies, because you are obviously making an enemy of the Turks in Türkiye who are now your friend! The solution is, DO NOT TOUCH THE TURKS IN XINJIANG, and defend the US treath to your country with becoming brothers with the Turks in Xinjiang. Massacring them with your police, each time a civil democratic(non militant) protest is been done, will only make the states of Türkiye and China enemies, while they should be allies against the devilish US!

[TurkmenCopur]

Its going to hit them at some point, and then they're subject to slaughter by their neighbours

Try it you PKK bastard, and you will see what will happen. At the battle of Aynel-Arab your fellow PKK terrorists run away like 10 year old girls seeking help from the Turk Armed Forces. Try to attack us with your US masters, and the repeat of the Turk War of Independence will happen, dont worry about it

Times have changed, no race can dominate forever, the Turks simply don't have the numbers and strength anymore, the Chinese could wipe all Turks from the face of the Earth if they wanted to.

Hahaha, the numbers are ready, at least 70 million Turks are trained soldiers ready to die for their country. The day that these 70 million Turks from Türkiye will UNITE with the millions of Turks from all Eurasian regions is very close, and inevitable. In order to win a war, you need a nationalist population full with people ready to die for their nation. Neither the US, nor the Russian, nor the Chinese army does have this potential. So, be afraid of the inevitable TURK UNION to happen. Even when the Oghuz Union between Türkiye and Azerbaijan will happen, you will see what kind of power will appear.

You really think Turks can win another war against combined NATO allies? They'll be wiped from the Earth.

Turkish independence was partly possible because of Kurdish assistance.

The NATO is nothing without the Turk Army, lol. The US army cant even control a simple country like Iraq. The reason the US cant even control a simple country like Iraq, is because they have cowardly soldiers who are in the army just for the money, not for any kind of sentimental value. Thats why the US is creating dozens of terrorist organizations and pay them to do their dirty work for them. Do you think that if a war was to happen, that the foreign African and Latin Americans in the US would risk their lifes for such a unhuman Hollywood army which is famous with the genocides, organs, human and slave trade, and any kind of unhuman tortures they performed in Iraq and Afghanistan against people that cant defend theirselves? Do you think, that the English people in the UK would risk their lifes for their country in stead of drinking their tea in the English gardens? If you cut off the Turks from the Russian army, then what is left of it? Is the presentday Russia, not the same as the Tsar Russian empire which was a puppet of the British empire?

70 million Turks? There's barely 40 - 50 million Turks in Turkey alone. But ok, lets hope you get wiped out then, you sound like bigots with owd "hurr we're le big stronk mastr rec, we will conqur de wurld agen with da power of tengri & anemal focking"

The historical science is a decissive factor in this matter. The Ottoman Archives of between 1400 - 1700 AD, shows in total 41.295 tribes in the Türkiye region. 37.577 of these 41.297 tribes were of Turk origin(Oghuz and Kipchak), which is equal to 91.0% of the population in Türkiye. 2.287 tribes were of Kürt origin, which is equal to 5.5% of the population in Türkiye.

The population number of Türkiye in end 2014, was approximately 78 million. Which means that 91.0% of the 78 million is of Turk origin, which is equal to 71 million Turks, to round things, lets make it 70 million in stead of 71 million.

By the way, the real Kürt's(not of Armenian ethnic origin) are of the same ethnic origin as the Türk's.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showth ... ost3680294

The Turks can be defeated, end of story

Yes, i have learned you well

And acatziri, can you shut up for a moment please? You arre such nonsense man. Such chaos theories everywhere

Is this a forum to discuss such serious subjects in a seriously and scientific way, analyzing the truth? Or do you rather gossip about nonsense donkey stuff and calling each other with nicknames, this is pathetic. We are obviously not friends in here, then we should try to debate with serious arguments, and not talk about irrelevant subjects like the donkey stuff and stop with the meaningless short and empty comments only full with insults..

You seriously have mental issues.

Why do you not agree with my argument, and what is your counter argument? Insulting me shows only more that i am right.

They're not. And there's no 91% Ethnic Turks, its most likely 70%.

Denying will not change the truth, dont worry. And the estimates of a Turk hating person do not have any value in my eyes. My argument is based on the historical Ottoman sources. What is your argument based on? Are you a fortune teller, or a magician that can feel how many people are of Turk origin?

How does Ottoman sources reflect on the demographics of modern Turkey? There's around 20 - 25 million Kurds, but its hard to say, since everyone in Turkey has Turkish names (* cough * assimilation * cough *)

Again, are you a magician, can you feel the numbers?

The truth is that each person in Türkiye has a family. And each family has a unique surname/family-nickname which was used during the Ottoman period. The ancient Ottoman Empire has special documents with records mentioning the ethnic origin of every family in the region of presentday Türkiye. Every modern person in Türkiye can trace their family-surname/family-nickname to the Ottoman period, and can know their ethnic origin. The Ottoman records obviously show that 91% of 78 million is of Turk origin.

I seriously dont care but all you are doing shaming yourself

Talk for yourself, look at your previous messages, full with short and meaningless content, look in the mirror and you'll see the real shame is on you... If you did care you would reply with your counter arguments, such insulting comments show that you have insufficient knowlegde and start to insult me, pathethic i must say

Stop fabricating numbers, that is not the reality today. Many ethnicities were assimilated, ethnic Turks barely account for 60 - 70% of Turkey's population.

Stop the estimating, you are not a magician, start using a historical/scientific approach, i believe you will be enlightened.

Dont thumb up me you retard. Keep tumbing up your ass lickers

You admit it, and you are deciphered. The PKK terrorist user is your fellow friend, and you share the same goals, pathetic.

Don't be too harsh on him, he is going through a hard time in his life

Meaningless message...

Your scientific approach is not that legitimate, I doubt your sources a lot

Get your head out of Obama's behind, and you will start seeing the reality. And please stop worshipping the US, i understand they are your GOD's, but please stop this madness, and stop with such slogans: "Biji serok obama". If you refuse, then please change your religion information to the term "US"

Ben sadece trollemek ve trollenmek için burdayım. Ama yine de birileri Türk insanına saldırdığında dayanamıyorum. Yine de senin yazdığın gibi aptalca şeyler yazmıyorum. Şu aqdum kürdü 3-4 sayfadır seni trollüyor. Sussan belki kendini utandırmaktan kurtulursun. Paylaştığın paragrafları, saçma sapan teorilerini, uzun uzun yazdığın düşüncelerini bunların okuduklarını mı sanıyorsun keko?

edit: Bak daha fazla rezil olma diye Türkçe yazdım birde. Bir daha da mesajına cevap yazmam merak etme. Yeteri kadar kürtle arapla uğraşıyoz zaten

Birde açık açık AKP trolü olduğunu kabul ediyorsunuz, iğrenç yaratık. Tayyip Erdoğan'a put gibi tapınmaktan bıkmadın mı? Adam olsan, kuş kadar beynin olsa, mesajlarında adam gibi argüman ve içerik olurdu. Senin yazdıkların boş, ben kendimden eminim, katılmadığın bir konu varsa adam gibi neden katılmadığını yazarsın, aksi takdirde basit bir AKP trolü olduğunu deşifre ediyorsun, ve hiçbir şeyi elde edemiyorsun, çok düşük bir değer seviyesi... Yazdığım tüm mesajlarımda karşı tarafın Türk düşmanı tezlerini teker teker çürüttüm, senin mesajlarına bakıyorum hepsi boş... Sen ne trol haltını görmek istiyorsun gör, hadi bakalım.

Cidden 2 gram beynin yok. Tipik bir vatan partilisin yoksa hepar mı?

Evet, sen anladın beni, ben Gerçek Atatürkçüyüm, ve Vatan Partisine gönül veriyorum. Sen ise Obama'nın kıçından çıkamayan "Tayyip Erdoğan'a ALLAH'ın tüm sıfatlarını üstünde bulunduruyor" diyebilecek kadar bir gafletin içinde olan bir AKP zihniyetinin zavallı trol destekçisisin!

My religion is not Islam. And I don't worship Obama. Don't talk to me about this, I'm not worshipping anyone

Admit it, your religion is the "US", please get your head out of Obama's behind, your embarrasing yourself

I'm not, are you mental or something? I don't have any religion ...

Zoran believes in the religion "US", and his current GOD is "Obama", and he is proud to represent his national identity with the sentence of "Biji Serok Obama"

How lovely you put words in my mouth ... And you fuck animals because of Tengri? I'm using the same logic as yours now.

Oh, did i frustrate you, you was so happy with your trolling short messages? Admit it, if it were possible you would have put your whole body in the behind of Obama, and stay in there.

[TurkmenCopur]

bla bla bla]

It is obviously clear that the users "Zoran, aksakallicocuk, Infinite" are trolls, not interested in a scientifc approach of a debate. They have the same strategies, and i even doubt these users are the same people, or worse, maybe they are professional trolls from the same team So, admit US = PKK = AKP.

I'm going to be serious for a moment here: Please ban him

Even the other Turks want him banned, this should be sufficient enough to ban him!

It is obviously clear that the users "Zoran, aksakallicocuk, Infinite" are trolls, not interested in a scientifc approach of a debate. They have the same strategies, and i even doubt these users are the same people, or worse, maybe they are professional trolls from the same team So, admit US = PKK = AKP.

[TurkmenCopur]

First of all, in my respond there is no aim to proof origin of Turks in Turkey. The only important point was in past people associate the Turks in Turkey with Central Asian and it was shown by the map.

For the name of the god, please decide something

I could not follow and understand this text...

As you said Ancient Central Asians not "=" with modern Central Asian (They are mixed with East Eurasins). This was my first objection.
and not just Mongol period, increasing East-Eurasians began in Göktürk period so even Gökturks not pure blood children of ancient west eurasian who lived in Central Asia (Sakha, Huns...)

Then how should we define the finding of East Eurasian Y-DNA Haplogroup C, found among the ancient skeletal remains of the 5300 - 4950 BCE Linear Band Keramik Culture from Hungary at the Gamba et al 2014 study?



At the following page, you can find information about this associated study named "Genome flux and stasis in a five millenium transect of European prehistory", Ancient DNA in Hungary region.

At the same Neolithic Age Linear Band Keramik Culture(plus the associated Lengyel Culture) and the Neolithic Age Spain Cultures(5200-5000 BCE)(for example La Brana) in Europe(regions from Germany to Hungary), the West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups E, F, G, H, I, J, R, T are found in the majority together with a minority of East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroup C.

What is interesting in here, is that the ancient Neolithic persons with Y-DNA haplogroup C in European regions, had West Eurasian anthropological skull types. Which means that the majority of the Proto Turks had a West Eurasian origin, with a minority of East Eurasian origin. The same structure was found among the ancient Sakha's, Huns and Turks.

Majority or minority, does not matter, genetic mutations occurred tens of thousands of years ago, so it is the truth that East and West Eurasian originated people lived together for thousands of years ago as Proto Turks.

Ancient DNA in Spain region





As a conclusion, the fact that ancient skeletal remains with Y-DNA Haplogroup C, from Neolithic Age of European regions, had West Eurasian anthropological skull types, and the fact that these people lived together with people from the exact same culture(which means they are of the SAME NATION) with West Eurasian Y-DNA Haplogroup like E, F, G, H, I, J, R, T, shows that the high frequencies of Haplogroup C found among the modern Kazakh Turks is not of foreign origin, and has for example the same origin as the high frequencies of West Eurasian Haplogroup G found among the modern Kazakh Turks.

So, the ancestors of the people that had an East Eurasian anthropological skull type 1000 years ago, could have a West Eurasian anthropological skull type 7000 years ago.

The table associated with the Gök Türks is only restricted to the anthropological skull types of Kazakhstan.

If you would have been good intended you would have read the complete text of the link of article i had shared before at Turk Nation: Anthropology-Archaeology-Genetic-Haplogroups.

Even within several regions of Kazakhstan, during the Gök Türk Period, the Türks with West Eurasian origin were the majority. And it were the female skeletal remains who tended to have more East Eurasian skull types, while the male skeletal remains had mostly West Eurasian skull types.

For example, at a craniometrical/anthropological study about the ancient Kimak/Kimek tribe of the Gök Türks, the %73 of the Kimak skulls had a West Eurasian origin.

Anthropological and Archaeological Determinations about the Gok Turks
Most of the paleoanthropological material was found from S.Tchernikov excavations in Eastern Kazakhstan. The skulls found by him belong to the Kimak Türks. A modest series of the 6th - 11th centuries AD (Türkic time) is also available from the Northern and Western Kazakhstan. These materials are described by V.V.Ginzburg (1958, 1960, 1963). He encountered different degrees of anthropological composition of the 6th - 11th centuries AD (Türkic time) population. So, the nomadic Türks of Eastern Kazakhstan had a bigger Caucasoid admixture than the nomadic Türks of Northern Kazakhstan.
A significant paleoanthropological material on Türkic tribes is from Pavlodar Irtysh area.

A significant paleoanthropological material on Türkic tribes is from Pavlodar Irtysh area. Here in the 1960 -1961. F.Kh. Arslanov uncovered 37 skeletons from five burials. All of them were in a fair state of preservation. The skulls from the burials near villages Trofimovka, Bobrovka and Pokrovka are dated 7th - 9th centuries AD, and the skeletons from burials at state farm Jdanovka and village. Leontievka are dated 10th-12th centuries AD. All these burials F.Kh. Arslanov (1964, 1968) considered as the monuments belonging to the Kimaks.

Both male, and female groups by the majority of high taxonomic value attributes are at a junction of Caucasoid and Mongoloid racial types. A typological observation of Irtysh skulls also points to intermediate character of morphological features of the buried. Generally, they have inherent Caucasoid features, but with various degrees of admixture of Mongoloid elements (Ismagulov, 1969).

Another craniological series of the 10th - 12th centuries AD from Pavlodar Irtysh area is represented by 26 skulls (15 male, 10 female and one child). This series is mostly from a necropolis located at 3rd branch of Jdanov state farm, and partly from necropolis near village Leontjevka. Averaged sizes of skulls with some measurements are listed in the Appendix (see Table. 4) (not sited here).

The male group have medium longitudinal and large crosswise diameters, hence, have a brachicranial index, relatively low hight of the crania, medium sloped and moderately wide forehead, high and very wide face medium -profiled in a horizontal plane, high value for the nose bridge, strongly protruding nose, medium high and relatively wide eye-sockets.

The average sizes in female skulls mostly coincide with the male skulls (considering gender dimorphism), but in female group the face skeleton is flatter in a horizontal plane and nose less protruding (i.e., female faces are more doll-like and cute, but in Russian anthropological tradition females are found to be more Mongoloid than their brothers).

A series as a whole belongs to a great Caucasoid race, but at the same time the fang indentations are not deep, the face skeleton is relatively high and wide, and moderately flat in a horizontal plane, which indicates a Mongoloid admixture.

This obsevation is also confirmed by a typological analysis. So, it is easy to find representatives of two big races among the skulls: Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Most (16 skulls) belong to Caucasoid race, some from them remind softened Andronov-type skulls. Six skulls are judged to be Mongoloid, but even they are not totally homogeneous. First, among them we discerned brachicranial and mezocranial types. Two female skulls of the mixed type is difficult to attribute in greater detail. A female skull from a burial near village Leontievka also has mixed attributes.

In South Kazakhstan, out of the 22 Gok Turkish Kimak tribe, %73 has the Europoid type, and 27% has the Mongoloid type. In here, people with Europoid and Mongoloid skull types belong many other subtypes. This again shows that several Y-DNA haplogroups could be found. In this example, it shows that the Kimak's could have several Europoid Y-DNA haplogroups.

At a recent study of Allentoft et al 2015, named "Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia", the following results were found:

Between the years 1000 BCE - 889 AD, among the ancient Sakha and/or Hun and/or Gök Türks from the Altai Republic region, the West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups J2 and R1a were found.

Read the following page for more detailed information about this new study: Ancient DNA in Altai Republic region.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_p ... 882#709882

[TurkmenCopur]

Aydos Sarım(Kazakistan'ın tanınmış siyasi uzmanlarından): "Karabağ’da savaş başlarsa, Kazakistan’dan yüzlerce binlerce gönüllü Azerbaycan’ın tarafında savaşacaktır"

Aydos Sarım(well-known political expert from Kazakhstan): "If a war starts in Karabakh hundreds of thousands of volunteers from Kazakhstan will fight on the side of Azerbaijan"

[TurkmenCopur]

Oh.. wow, there is real hatred between you guys, isn't there.. That.. wow..

No, these guys are simple Turk hating trolls. The Turks have no hate crime feelings towards any foreign nation. The personality and culture of the Turks is build upon the ethical humanist characters of ancient noble people like Hoca Ahmet Yesevi, Haci Bektash Veli, Mevlana, Yunus Emre, Pir Sultan Abdal.

The 13th-14th century Türk poem used by Yunus Emre, defines clearly that Turks do not have hate crime feelings towards foreign nations:

"Yetmiş iki millete bir gözle bakmayan
Halka müderris olsa hakîkatte âsîdir."

"People who dont look to all 72 nations equally(with one single eye view)
Could be professors, but are in fact rebellious"

It is always the opposite, hatred and hate crime activities against us Turks is constantly and systematically been conducted with bad intentions(not to solve any thing, or not to find any kind of scientific truth). The Turk haters know that they can not beat the Turks in war, thats why they are eagerly trying any kind of honourless and non ethical way for the goal of spreading their artificial hate crime theories against the Turks. There are countries of which the reason for their establishment is specially build for the goal of committing hate crime against the independent Turks and the independent Türkiye of Atatürk whom defeated the British Empire and their puppets right after the end of the First World War(1914-1918 until the end of 1923). The modern states of these puppet traitor populations(France, Armenia, Greece, etc.) are for example now the states which are making laws specially created based on the non scientific lies(for example the Armenian slander) and the provoking of hate crime against Turks.

The trolls like the ones in this forum are being specially paid to write constant messages with the special goal of spreading hate crime against the independent Turks and the independent Türkiye of Atatürk. Look at their messages, always simple to decipher messages with a non scientific approach, just here in these kind forums to spread their hate crime feelings against the Turks and the great, ethical, justice and honourfull history of Turks.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showth ... Hail-Turan!

[TurkmenCopur]

All right, the thread's reopened. Why do people hate the Turks so much? I just want a clear answer. Someone on the Greek side gave me a Greek perspective earlier. What the fuck is going on?

This is why:

No, these guys are simple Turk hating trolls. The Turks have no hate crime feelings towards any foreign nation. The personality and culture of the Turks is build upon the ethical humanist characters of ancient noble people like Hoca Ahmet Yesevi, Haci Bektash Veli, Mevlana, Yunus Emre, Pir Sultan Abdal.

The 13th-14th century Türk poem used by Yunus Emre, defines clearly that Turks do not have hate crime feelings towards foreign nations:

"Yetmiş iki millete bir gözle bakmayan
Halka müderris olsa hakîkatte âsîdir."

"People who dont look to all 72 nations equally(with one single eye view)
Could be professors, but are in fact rebellious"

It is always the opposite, hatred and hate crime activities against us Turks is constantly and systematically been conducted with bad intentions(not to solve any thing, or not to find any kind of scientific truth). The Turk haters know that they can not beat the Turks in war, thats why they are eagerly trying any kind of honourless and non ethical way for the goal of spreading their artificial hate crime theories against the Turks. There are countries of which the reason for their establishment is specially build for the goal of committing hate crime against the independent Turks and the independent Türkiye of Atatürk whom defeated the British Empire and their puppets right after the end of the First World War(1914-1918 until the end of 1923). The modern states of these puppet traitor populations(France, Armenia, Greece, etc.) are for example now the states which are making laws specially created based on the non scientific lies(for example the Armenian slander) and the provoking of hate crime against Turks.

The trolls like the ones in this forum are being specially paid to write constant messages with the special goal of spreading hate crime against the independent Turks and the independent Türkiye of Atatürk. Look at their messages, always simple to decipher messages with a non scientific approach, just here in these kind forums to spread their hate crime feelings against the Turks and the great, ethical, justice and honourfull history of Turks.

[TurkmenCopur]

One only needs to examine threads in the Armenian sub-forum, to find plenty of discussion that doesn't primarily revolve around that tragedy, a century ago. All 4 sticky threads in the Armenian sub-forum (established in 2011 and 2012), discuss other matters as their primary focus:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?32188-The-Armenians-People-of-Armenia-Caucasus
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?46686-Is-Nagorno-Karabakh-Armenian-or-Azerbaijani-land
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?40862-Women-of-Armenian-Highland
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?40865-Armenian-Highland-Geography-to-Ethno-genesis-Prehistory-Antiquity

As for the Turkish sub-forum, Turks and other Non-Armenian Members have probably opened more discussions about the Armenian Genocide, in that sub-forum, than is the case with Armenian members. Most of my comments in that forum are posted in threads opened by other members. And yes, I'm sure that Armenians have discussed other matters there in the Turkish Sub-Forum. For example, I posted a comment in the "Post the Turkish dishes you like" thread, quite a long time ago.

But, the Armenian tragedy, a century ago, does deserve our attention.

The battle for the spreading of the non scientific Armenian Slander, is the only reason for the existance of the modern puppet state of Armenia. Together with Greece, your only political strategy is to force the lies that the US and the UK is forcing you to defend. Did you ever read the historical report of Hovhannes Kajaznuni, the first Prime Minister of the First Republic of Armenia, about the "Armenian Slander" subject? If not, with a good intended approach, i really want you to read the following report written by Hovhannes Kajaznuni:

CONGRESS REPORT TO THE TASHNAK PARTY

Hovhannes Kajaznuni, or Hovhannes Katchaznouni (Armenian: Յովհաննէս Քաջազնունի) (1 February 1868 – 1938) was the first Prime Minister of the First Republic of Armenia from May 30, 1918 to May 28, 1919. He was a member of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation.

Hovhannes Kajaznuni, has submitted a report to the Congress of the Tashnaksütyun Party which was held in 1923 in Bucharest-Romania. In this report, Hovhannes Kajaznuni bravely tells the truth about what happened during and after the First World War.

The Summary of the Report of Hovhannes Kajaznuni is like this:

"The Tsar Russia, England and France DECEIVED us Armenians. They told us that they would give us a state reaching from a sea to another sea, and hereby they armed us(gave us weapons) and send us to the fire(to risk ourselves, to die for them, to kill innocent people for them, for what they promised us).

The Turks acted in the pupose of defending. Mutual massacres happened. We massacred the Muslim population. Guiltiness(The ones that did wrong) should not be sought outside of the Dashnak Party. In this case, htere is nothing left to do for the Dashnak Pary. The Dashnak Pary should dissolve itself.
"
The remaining other Armenian statesmen did also write reports like this.

[TurkmenCopur]

Abbassids were moderate Sunnis, Seljuks became moderate much later they were Wahabbi-like in the beginning when they started to invade the ME. They attacked the ME to fight Fatimids and Buheyvids who were Shias and Batinids. Turks were pagans who converted, in beginning when they convert, masses of people are very religious. The mass of people convert to remain part of the group this is true but the first Muslim Turks who converted to Islam really believed then converted rest of their race. This is how a handful believers ruled over huge masses in history.

The Seljukid Turks, had nothing in common with the descendants of the Umayyad dynasty(in other words the present day Wahhabis and other Sunni groups). The Seljukid Turks believed in the Real Islam of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). Their sect was a Muslim sect builded by the public leaders like Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). This sect was later(in the following centuries) called the "Alevi" sect in Anatolia. The Alevi sect of the Seljukids is a Turk nationalist Islamic sect, which preserved the traditions of the old "Sky TENGRI" religion as a part of the Turk culture, and believed in the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.).

On the contrary, the Sunni Umayyad descendants were the ones that killed all the descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and used the Islam in a bad intended way for the gaining of political and economical power, which is the reason why Khazar Turks, Selcukid Turks and Memluk Turks battled and took over the regions which were earlier under Umayyad and Abbasid rule. The Sunni Umayyad descendants changed the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.), with their faked up hadiths which tells false information regarding the principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). The Sunni Umayyad descendants in fact created a new religion called the "Umayyad Religion", which is not equal to the Real Islam.

The "Sky TENGRI" religion was a religion based on 1 Single ALLAH, it has nothing in common with Paganism, and so is NOT equal to the belief of multiple GODS, and is also NOT a religion in which worshipping of objects were performed.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showth ... ost3687260