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Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Sumerians are Proto Turks, the Sumerian Alphabet and Language is Proto Turk Language

Burada Ön Türk Tarihi hakkında konular bulabilirsiniz

Re: Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Mesajgönderen TurkmenCopur » 30 May 2015, 20:41

antocya yazdı:The Sumerians did not have an alphabet. They wrote in cuneiform using different combinations of wedge shapes to represent syllables. It's a syllabary not an alphabet. It worked well with clay tablets but it was laborious to memorize.

Later the Egyptians invented heiroglyphs which made more sense on papyrus and the Phoenicians invented an alphabet which later influenced the Greek alphabet.

Some languages still use syllabaries like Korean and Japanese. I think it works well for their languages because they don't have as many sounds and consonant clusters. It would be really tough with English though. However their syllabaries are not as complicated as Sumerian. I looked at a textbook once to learn just out of mild interest and it was really difficult to try to distinguish all the wedge patterns.


Hahaha, you are laughable and become more and more desperate. Read the following text of Prof. Dr. Timur Kocaoğlu from the Michigan State University:

http://muslimstudies.isp.msu.edu/people ... caoglu.htm

http://jmc.msu.edu/contact/show.php?id=111

Friends,
The origin of the Phoenician, Sogd, Hebrew, Arabian, Greek, Cyrillic, Etrusc, Latin, Gök Türk alphabets is the Sumerian writing. The Sumerian writing has transformed in a period of 5000 years into other sub alphabets like(3 sub groups):

1. Phoenician, Gök Türk, Etrusc, Runic (Scandinavian) writings (Latin writing is occurred out of the Etruscan writing),

2. Phoenician, Sogd, Arabian, Hebrew alphabets

3. Old Greek alphabet and out of that the Cyrillic alphabet


CONCLUSION: SUMERIANS ARE PROTO TURKS, WHO SPEAK A PROTO TURK LANGUAGE. THE SUMERIANS LANGUAGE + ALPHABET IS THE ANCESTOR OF ALL LANGUAGES + ALPHABETS ABOVE.

antocya yazdı:These links just give his personal information. Do you want me to call him or something?


Again, are you guys handicapted or something, or are you so bad intended, i really dont like to repeat myself, if you are so incompetent that you cannot even understand the fact for the links is to show that Prof. Dr. Timur Kocaoğlu is a well known internationally respected historian and linguist. Your final comment really lowered the quality of this discussion, if i see such low quality reply again, i wont even bother to reply(waste of my time, such low iq bad intended Turk hating, US puppets), just to give you a heads up.

His comment can be found at the following link: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tur ... sages/1529 which he wrote at "Aug 30, 2006" when he was working at the Koç University in İstanbul.

The Phoenician alphabet was influenced by Egyptian heiroglyphs, not Sumerian cuneiform.

And even if they were influenced by Sumerian cuneiform that doesn't mean they are the same. It would be absurd to say Viking runes are Egyptian heiroglyphs.

And besides, this has no bearing on Sumerians being proto Turks. That's quite fanciful.


What is the date of the oldest Egyptian writings? What is the date of the oldest Phoenician writings? And, FINALLY, what is the date of the oldest Sumerian writings? I think that a SMART person, should understand very well what i mean with these questions...
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Kayıt: 29 Eki 2010, 17:26

Re: Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Mesajgönderen TurkmenCopur » 30 May 2015, 21:12

Turkic-Sumerian Cognates from Dr. Osman Nedim Tuna
Sumerian Evidence: Turkic-Sumerian Cognates from Dr. Osman Nedim Tuna


(Because of Dr. Tuna’s recent tragic death, he was unable to complete the next (and English)
version of the book which was published originally in Turkish. Because of the importance of the
work, I am presenting it in electronic form for the Internet. H.M. Hubey)


Sümerce –Türkçe Ses Denklikleri (Kuralları)
(Sumerian-Turkish Regular Sound Change Rules)
Dr. Osman Nedim Tuna
A. Doğrudan Görülebilen Denklikler
(Sound equivalences that can be seen directly.)

1. agar ‘lead (metal)’ (EHG. 34, 58)
ağır ‘ağır’ (DLT, I, 52)
2. azgu ‘neck-stock (for use with animals)’ (Grd. 331)
asgu <*koni)) ‘koyun’ (ETY, KT, Kuzey Doğu), koy ‘koyun’(KBİ, 273) 5. umah ‘Sumpf’ (D. 108), u4muh4 ‘Schlamm der Flüsse’ (MSL,III, 217) kömek > gömek ‘çamurlu, bataklık yer, alan’ (DSz. 2149), kömük ‘bataklık’ (DSz. 2957)
6. umun ‘Gewölk’ (D. 108; Falkenstein, 26)
kümün ‘men, person, people, another man, personality’ (Lessing, 501)
7. un ‘people, folk’ (Falkenstein, 26; (D. 109)
kün ‘elgün, halk’ (KBİ, 300)
8. ur ‘to found, to lay foundation; establish’ (D. 112)
kur- ‘tertib etmek, düzenlemek, hazırlamak; tasarlamak ’ (YTSz. 148)
9. ur ‘to sweep away, to be swept over board’ (Grd. 429)
kürü ‘kürek gibi bir şeyle atmak’ (YTSz, 151)
10. uru ‘to look after, to protest’ (MSL, III, 146), to guard’ ‘(Grd. 430)
koru- ‘korumak’ (KBİ, 272)
11. urugal ‘Grab’ (MSL, III, 143)
kurgan ‘Grabhügel’ (CC 160-22), ‘kurgan, kale’ (EUSz. 187); ‘hisar kale’ (Ab. 328); ‘kubbe’
(TZ, 2115, ‘chateau fort; la partie d’une entouree d’une enceinte’ (PdC, 427),
‘kurgan, mezar’ (Şr. KI.107. 107-6) krş. Amga Kurgan (ETY, KT, I, 58, I, 50)
12. uşan ‘bird’ (Falkenstein, 28) krş. muşen id.
kuş ‘kuş’ (DLT, I, 22; KBİ, 293)
13. uşub ‘Vogelnest’ (D.114)
kuş+eb ‘kuş evi=yuva’ Bkz. kuş yk., eb ‘ev’ (ETY)


C. Kelimenin ilk ünsüzünden sonraki ünsüzler: d, d, m, r, Ø
(Consonants after the initial consonant: d, d, m, r, Ø)

I. Sumerian d/ vs Turkic d/

1. adakur ‘ein opfergefass für Getränke’ (Sumerian Luwian)
adak ‘içki kadehi’ (Hs. S. 559; Nh. F. 370-8; ‘çanak, kase, içki kadehi’ (TZ. 145: 157-10;
PdC.5; ttsZ. 289)
2. gid ‘1. Entfernen’ (D. 60)
ıd- ‘salmak, göndermek, serbest bırakmak’ (DLT, I, 210; KBİ, 181; ıy- id.
3. gid ‘bad, stinking’ (Prince, 142)
ıd ‘koku, misk’ (KBİ, 180); yıd ‘koku’ (DLT, III, 48)
4. gud ‘ox’ (Grd. 362), ‘Stier, Rind’ (D.51), gu ‘Rind’ (MSL, III, 137)
ud ‘sığır, öküz’ (DLT, I, 45, 346), ‘sığır, (KBİ, 488); ‘boğa’ (KBİ, 488)
5. duga ‘parfume’ (MSL, IV, 23)
yıdıg ‘pis kokan, taaffün etmiş’ (eusZ. 293); ‘kötü kokan herşey’ )DLT, III, 12); ‘kötü
kokulu (şey), kötü kokan (şey)’ (KBİ, 537)
6. kad ‘knüpfen’ (MSL, III, 133); kad4 ‘binden’ (D. 170), kad8 ‘festflügen’ (D. 170)
kada- ‘annageln, befestigen’(CC.147-2; Mk.E.350; PdC. 395; kadan-‘yerleşmek,
pekişmek’ (TTS, IV, 2157)
7. kid2 ‘spanten’ (D. 149), ‘to split, to cut into pieces’ (MSL, III, 167); kud ‘to cut off’ (Grd.
378)
kıd- ‘kıymak, öldürmek’ (KTY, KT, Guney 6); kıy- ‘kıymak’ (KBİ, 253; TZ. 200)
8. kudim ‘silver or goldsmith’ (D. 144)
kuyum ‘kalıba dökme’ (TZ, 213); (çç, 163, 13); ‘çeyiz’ (YTSz. 150), kuyum ‘argent,’
kuyumçı ‘orfévre’ (PdC), (Houtsma) id., kuyma ‘herhangi bir madenden (çekiçle
döğme ile değil, eritilerek dökme ile) yapılmış havan, çırakman, çekiç gibi aygıtlar’
(Dlt, III, 174)
9. nad ‘sich niederlagen, beischlafen; sich lagern’ (D. 168; MSL, III, 152)
yad- ‘yaymak, döşemek, sermek’ (DLT, I, 15, 45); ‘yaymak’ (KBİ, 512)
10. ud ‘Zeit’ (D. 104), ‘time (in general)’ (Grd. 425)
öd ‘zaman, vakit, mevsim, hava’ (DLT, I, 44; II, 77); ‘zaman, vakit’ ‘(KBİ, 351)
11. ud ‘4. Sturm’ (D. 104)
kad ‘kar fırtınası, insanı öldüren bora, tipi’ (DLT, II, 223; III, 147), kay ‘yağmur ile dolu’
(Idr. 74; PdC. 413), ‘yağmur, sağanak, bora’ (YTSz. 131)
12. udi ‘sleep’ (MSL, III, 67)
udı- ‘uyumak’ (DLT, I, 39; III, 2590; (KBİ. 488) krş. ud ‘uyku’ (DLT, I, 46, 200)


II. Sumerian d/, - vs Turkic n/, -

1. dugud ‘schwer’ (MSL, III, 141)
yogun ‘kalın, yoğun’ (KBİ, 549), ‘yoğun, şişkin, kalın’ (DLT, ‘III., 29), ‘kalın, yoğun, kaba’
(EUSz. 301)
d il
2. kid2 ‘ kid2=ŞAMAŞ, ‘Sonne’ (D. 149) krş. hud, ud
kün ‘gün, güneş gündüz’ (DLT, I, 69), ‘güneş’ (KBİ, 300)
3. mud ‘blood’ (Grd. 389)
kan ‘kan’ (DLT, I, 192; KBİ, 220)
4. sipad ‘shepherd’ Grd. 406), siba ‘Hirt’ (MSL, III, 143)
çopan ‘köy büyüğünün (muhtarının) yamağı, gizir’ (DLY, I, 402), ‘çoban’ (Mk. E. 136; Hs.
Şr. 2384; Nh. F. 318-16, 329-11; Çrh. 70; PdC. 290)
5. sud4 ‘to be long, to lengthen, to prolong’ (Grd. 408)
sun- ‘uzamak, el uzatmak, uzanmak’ (YTSz. 1945, sün- ‘uzamak, usanmak’ (YTSz. 196)
6. tugdu ‘knot, tie’ (Salonen 22)
tügün ‘düğüm’ (DLT, I, 400, 437) krş. ‘düğümlemek, bağlamak’ (DLT, I, 472)
7. u4(d) ‘day, time (in general)’ (Grd. 427), ‘Tag’ (D. 104)
kün ‘gün, güneş, gündüz’ (DLT, I, 16), ‘gün, gündüz’ (KBİ, 3017)
8. udu ‘sheep’ (Grd. 427), udu, ‘Schaf’ (MSL, III, 111)
ko? ‘(<*koni) koyun’ (ETY, KT, Kuzey Doğu), koy ‘koyun’ (KBİ, 273) 9. zi(d) ‘truth, upright, just’ (Grd. 433) çın ‘gerçek, gerçeklik, doğru’ (EUSz. 617), çin id. (EUSz.) 63) 10. şid ‘number, voting board’ (MSL, V, 15); şiti ‘Rechunung, Zahl’ (MSL, III, 144) san ‘sayı, sayma, itibar etme’ (DLT, III, 157); ‘sayma, benzeme’ (KBİ, 381) III. Sumerian V mV vs Turkic V K V 1. amaş ‘Schafhürde’ MSL, III, 145), ‘ümfriedung, Stall’ (D. 13) agıl ‘ağıl, koyun yatağı; pisliği (DLT, I, 65, 73) 2. geme ‘Magd’ (MSL, III, 125; d. 45) eke ‘büyük kızkardeş’ (DLT, I, 68), eget ‘gerdek gecesi gelin için gönderilen hizmetçi kadın (DLT, I, 151) 3. imma ‘two (Emesal), (Falkenstein 41) ikki ‘iki’ (DLT, I, 182) 4. umun ‘schwer, gewichtig’ (D. 108) yogun ‘yoğun, şişkin, kalın’ (DLT, 111, 29) ‘kalın. yoğun, ‘kaba’ (EUSz. 301) 5. umuş ‘discernment’ (Grd. 428), ‘Verstand’ (D. 108) ukuş ‘anlayış’ (DLT, 162); ‘akıl, anlayış’ (KBİ, 490) IV. Sumerian r/ vs Turkic z/ 1. bur ‘to spread abroad, to disperse of (a thing)’ (Grd. 336; MSL, III, 140, 170), ‘undo (especially a specially a spell),’ ‘to make a hole’ (MSL, III, 67), buru ‘harvest (noun)’ (Grd. 336) boz- ‘bozmak, yıkmak’ (DLT, III, 8), buz- ‘bozmak, yıkmak, harab etmet, viraneye çevirmek, darmadağın etmet’ (KBİ, 118) 2. gur5 ‘zerbrechen, zerschneiden, abtrennen’ (D. 55) üz- ‘(ip ve benzeri şeyleri) kesmek’ (DLT, I, 165, 522), ‘kesmek’ (KBİ, 508), üztürmek ‘üzdürmek, kopartmak’ (DLT, I, 220) 3. har ‘dig, dig quickly’ (Prince, 176) kaz- ‘kazmak’ (DLT, III, 10, 59) (KBİ, 231) 4. mir ‘anger (Emesal)’ (MSL, IV, 35) kız- ‘to be angry, cross, ill tempered; to be angry, vexed with,’ 2. To get hot…(Rd. 661 kızga- ‘(kul) kızıp uzaklaştırmak, kakımak’ (DLT, III, 290) 5. sar ‘schreiben’ (MSL, III, 113), ‘to write’ (Grd. 403), şar id. yaz- ‘şaşmak, yanılmak, çözmek; yazmak’ (DLT, I, 92; II, 20, III, 59, 111) 6. sur ‘to squeeze, to press out (oil, juice)’ (Grd. 408), şur ‘pressen (öl)’ (MSL, III, 97) süz- ‘süzmek’ (DLT, I, 450; II, 9); (KBİ, 412) 7. şur ‘wild, decapacitated (animal)’ (Falkenstein, 29) yoz ‘vahşi; yavan, bayağı; zararh…’ YTSz. 251), yoza- ‘(kısraktanbaşka) hayvan kısır kalmak’ (DLT, III, 88) 8. ur ‘liver, spirit, mood’ (Grd. 429) öz ‘can, rush, gönül’ (DLT, I, 45), yürek ve karın içindeki nesne’ (DLT, I, 46) 9. ubur ‘Weibliche Brust’ (MSL, III, 145; D. 102), ‘teats’ (Grd. 426; Falkenstein, 26) köküz > kögüz ‘göğüs (EUSz. 114; KBİ, 274; DLT, I, 366) krş. öbür id. (Lessing 630)


V. Sumerian ş/ vs Turkic 1/


1. amaş ‘ ‘Schafhürde’ (MSL, III, 145), ‘ümfriedung, Stall’ (D. 13)
agıl ‘ağıl, koyun yatağı, hayvan pisliği’ (DLT, I, 65, 73)
2. aşşa ‘six’ (Falkenstein, 41)
altı ‘altı’ (EUSz. 13)
3. gişge ‘shadow’ (EHG. 79)
kölige ‘gölge’ (DLT, I, 448; III, 1745; kölike id. (KBİ, 275)
4. gişkim ‘willow’ (MSL, IV, 20)
yıgın ‘ılgın ağacı, tamariska’ (DLT, III, 37) ılgın ‘tamarisk’ (Rd. 501)
5. tuş ‘seat, to sit’ (MSL, III, 58); ‘to sit’ (Grd. 420); ‘to dwell (in a place); to be settled
down’ (Grd. 423)
ol- ‘bulunmak, kalmak, ikamet etmek, eğlenmek’ (YTSz. 161)
6. uş ‘(II, 2, 3) ‘Fundament’ (D. 113)
ul ‘duvar temeli’ (DLT, I, 133), ‘temel’ (KBİ, 491)
7. uş2 ‘dead, to die’ (Grd. 431)
öl- ‘ölmek’ (DLT, I, 15, 38)


c. Kelime sonu: æ, g, m, V r/z.
(Word final: æ, g, m, V r/z)

I. Sumerian ae- vs Turkic an-

1. mæ ‘I’ (Grd. 386)
men ‘ben’ (KBİ, 309, DLT, I, 20)
2. zæ ‘you (sg.)’ (Grd. 431)
sen ‘sen’ (DLT, I, 36)
3. şulpæ ‘Gott Sulpae’ (Falkenstein, 29) krş. dilbat ‘the Venus- star’ (Prince)
çolpan ‘çoban yıdızı’ (TZ. 163); ‘Zuhre yıldızı, çoban yıldızı’ (Idr. 31); ‘sabah yıldızı’ (Ab.
247); ‘Etoile blanche qui se montre vers I’aurore et sur laquelle se guident
lecaravans’ (PdC, 297)
4. ulia ‘Grass, Futter, Pflanze’ (D. 99)
öle? ‘sulak yer, bataklık arazi’ (EUSz. 150); ‘ot, çayır’ Mk. E. 275, 335); ‘ çimenlik’ (Ab.
108); ‘vert, emdroit riche En verdure, prairie’ (PdC. 78); öle?lik ‘çayır, otlak (TTSz.
550)


II. Sumerian g- vs Turkic ?-

1. aşa(g) ‘field’ (Grd. 326)
ala? ‘alan, düz ve açık yer’ (DLT, I, 135)
2. bulug ‘Grenze, Grenzegebiet’ (D. 31)
bulu? ‘köşe, bucak, zaviye’ (DLT, II, 371); ‘köşe, yön, taraf, cihet’ (EUSz. 53)
3. dag ‘daybreak, morning, dawn’ (D. 43), ‘hell, rein, glänzend’ (D. 69)
ta? ‘tan, sabah vakti’ (DLT, I, 170; KBİ, 421)
4. kalag ‘to be strong, to be vigorous, to have power’ (Grd. 349), ‘machtig, stark’ (D. 141)
kalı? ‘kalabalık, çok sürü; kalın, kesif (DLT, I, 149; KBİ, 218), ‘çok sürü; kalın, kesif (DLT,
I, 149; KBİ, 218), ‘çok, sayısız, sık, pek kalabalık, koyu’ (EUSz. 162)
5. nig ‘whatsoever’ (MSL, III, 69), ‘thing’ (Grd. 397), nigname ‘whatever’ (MSL, IV, 30),
nignam ‘all sorts of things, everything’ (Grd. 345)
ne? ‘nesne, şey, mal’ (DLT, I, II; KBİ, 328), ‘eşya, nesne’ (EUSz. 136)
6. sig ‘Wool, body-hair’ (Grd. 405), ‘wolle’ (D. 181)
yü? ‘yün, yün sümeği; pamuk’ (DLT, III, 89), ‘yün; (KBİ, 562)
7. zalag ‘glänzen; hell’ (D. 117)
yalı? ‘alev; yalçın, sarp, çıplak’ (YTSz. 232), ‘çıplak’ (EUSz. 282, KBİ, 518; DLI, III, 373),
yalı? ‘alev’ (EUSz.282; KBİ, 517; DLT, III, 23); çıplak’

III. Sumerian m- vs Turkic K-

1. alim ‘Steppentier, Widder’ D. 13)
elik ‘geyik’ elik kiyik (ETY, Ir. 97, II, 90), ‘geyik’ (At. Hk. 456, XVIII), ‘ceylan’ (Idr. 10),
‘dağ keçisi, yabankeçisi’ (KBİ, 146)
2. alim ‘König’ (D. 13)
ilig ‘hükümdar’ (KBİ, 194); ‘hükümdar, kıral’ (EUSz. 92)
3. dilim ‘Schale, Napf’ (D. 84), dilib ‘Schopf’ (MSL, III, 117)
yalıg ‘at yelesi’ (DLT, II, 327; III, 13, 14)
4. garim ‘Fluss-Aue’ (MSL, III, 109)
ar(ı)k ‘ırmak, ark, germeç, kaş, kanal’ (DLT, I, 65)
5. izim ‘hess’(D.133), ‘Feuer,Hitze, heiss’(MSL,III,132;IV, 36)
isig ‘sıcak’ (DLT, I, 72); ‘sıcak, sıcaklık, iltifat’ (KBİ, 201)
6. kurum6 ‘food-ration, food supply’ (Grd. 379)
azuk ‘azık, yiyecek’ (KBİ, 50; DLT, I, 7, 16)
7. nurum ‘ Licht’ (D. 170)
yaruk ‘ışık, aydınlık; parlak’ (DLT, I, 46), ‘aydınlık, parlak’ (KBİ, 527)
8. şurum ‘a cattle stable’ D. 201)
sürüg ‘sürü’ (KBİ, 412; EUSz. 2145)
9. um ‘Mutter’ (D. 107)
ög ‘anne’ (ETY, BK, D, 63; EUSz. 146)

IV. Sumerian çV r/z vs Turkic çr/çV

1. dingir ‘Gott’ (D. 84), ‘god’ (Grd. 341)
te?ri ‘Tanrı’ (DLT, I, 53, 68), ‘gök, sema’ (DLT, III, 377)
2. dubur 1. ‘Hode’ (D. 78)
yumru ‘top gibi yuvarlak’ (Mn. Gz. 78, v5), yumrı ‘yumru’ (TZ, 34, 69; Mk. E. 238), krş.
yumurtga ‘yumurta….. insanların ve hayvanların taşakları’ (DLT, II, 313)
3. nunuz 2. ‘bead’ (Falkenstein, 29)
yinçü ‘inci; cariye (DLT, I, 273), yinçü ‘inci’ (KBİ, 545), yünçü id. (KBİ, 562)


Sümer ve Türk Dillerinin Tarihî İlgisi ve Türk Dilinin Yaşı Meselesi, Osman Nedim Tuna tarafından yazılan Sümerce ve Türkçe arasındaki ilişkiyi karşılaştırmalı olarak inceleyen kitap.

Yazarın tezi, her dilde başka dilden ödünç kelime bulunabileceğidir, nitekim, Sümerologlar da (mesela Landsberger) vaktinde Sümerce metinlerde geçen ama Sümerce olmayan, daha kuzeydeki (yani Anadolu'nun doğusu) bir kavimden alınmış olabilecek kelimeleri listelemiştir. Yazar işte o kelimeler üzerinde çalışır ve linguistik yöntemlerle onlardan 166 tanesinin Türk dilinin kelimesi olduğunu savunur.

Sümerce Karaçay Türkçesi Türkiye Türkçesi

az az Az
baba ata Baba (ata)
gaba gabara Yünlü yelek
daim dayım Doyum, doyma
me men Ben
mu Bu, ol Bu, o
ne ne Ne
Ru ur Vur
Er er Er, asker
Tu Tuv- Doğ-
Tud tuvdu doğdu
Ed öt geç
Çar çarh çark
guruvaş karavaş Kadın köle
uş üç üç
üd ot Od, ateş
Uzuk uzun uzun
Tuş tüş- Düş-, aşağı inmek
Eşik Eşik Eşik ,kapı
Aur avur ağır
Jau Jav/cav Yağ
Jen Jer/cer Yer
Egeç egeç kızkardeş
Or or Orak çalmak
Kal kal- Kal-
Kız kız Kız
Kuş kuş Kuş
Uat uvat- Ufala-, kır-
Jarık Jarık/carık Aydınlık, ışık
Jaz Jaz/caz- Yaz-
Jün Jün/cün Yün
Jol Jol/col Yol
Jır Jır/cır Türkü, şarkı (Ir)
Jarım Jarım/carım Yarım
Çolpan çolpan Çoban (Sabah) yıldızı
Çibin çibin Sinek (cibin-lik)
İrik İrk/irik 5 yaşındaki koç
Kur kur Kur-
koru koru Koru-
küre küre Küre-
Kadau kadav Sürme kilit
Kan kan Kan
San san Sayı
ikki eki İki
Buz buz Boz
Üz üz Kopar
Süz süz Süz
Ez öz Öz, kendi
Ör öl Öl
ul ul Oğul

http://sumeryan.blogspot.nl/2010/06/tur ... osman.html
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TurkmenCopur
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Mesajlar: 13983
Kayıt: 29 Eki 2010, 17:26

Re: Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Mesajgönderen TurkmenCopur » 30 May 2015, 21:35

antocya yazdı:No I don't really understand what you're talking about at all.

Besides that, I looked at the yahoo page and it didn't even talk about the sumerians. He says all these different alphabets originated from the Sumerians but then starts talking about göktürkler and Manichaeism and Buddhism and then jumps ahead to soviet republics with no discussion or evidence of Sumerians.


Again are you handicapted. You yourself write down "all these different alphabets originated from the Sumerians", then you say he did not talk about the Sumerians, you are very pathetic.

Look at the lecture of Prof.Dr.Timur Kocaoğlu, performed at ESOGU EGİTİM FAKÜLTESİ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mTSzUqA3-8

Also look at the following image:

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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
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TurkmenCopur
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Kayıt: 29 Eki 2010, 17:26

Re: Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Mesajgönderen TurkmenCopur » 21 Haz 2015, 22:16

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showth ... ate/page11

Halgurd yazdı:It probably has a link to the Semitic "din". Nothing slit eyed about it, try again.

And if there is a relation with Tengri then it's just a loanword as was suggested by others who studied the Sumerians. One thing is for sure they are not a Turkic people. It's not even an accepted theory lol


The Sumerians were Proto Turks, migrated from Central Asia to the Middle Eastern regions. Their language is neither Semitic, nor Indo European(non logical term by the way). And their languague is an agglutinative type of language, which is equal to Altaic-Uralic-Dravidic languages. However, there are hudreds of words in the Sumerian tablets, whom are directly equal to the modern Turk language. And there are clear evidences showing the Sumerians and their language was of Proto Turk origin.

1. The Sumerians did not call their selves Sumer. Their national name was "Kenger/Kienger/Kangar". This name is equal to the name of dozens of medieval Hun-Turk tribes. Out of these, for example the ancestors of the Pecheneg tribe, descendants of the Huns of Attila, were called "Kangar/Kenger". The national name of the Sumerians obviously shows they are the ancestors of medieval Huns and Turks.

2. Like i mentioned before, their ALLAH was named "DINGIR", whom is equal to the word "TENGRI", this is an accepted fact by scholar. Also, many Sumerologs, have dozens of conclusions regarding the fact that the rituals practiced by the Sumerians were of Shamanic origin(or better said SKY TENGRI origin).

3. The culture found among the archaeological findings of the Sumerians were very similar to that of the culture, customs and traditions of the medieval Sakha, Huns and Turks.

4. The writing system of the Sumerians is clearly proven to be the ancestor of many languages/alphabets like the Orkhun alphabet, Phoenician alphabet, Latin alphabet, etc..

All in all there is more than enough evidence which shows the Sumerians were obviously of Proto Turk origin. To not see and accept these obvious facts, it means they are providing extra meaningless efforts for bad intended purposes.
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TurkmenCopur
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Mesajlar: 13983
Kayıt: 29 Eki 2010, 17:26

Re: Sümerler Ön Türk'tür, Sümer Alfabesi ve Dili de Türk'tür

Mesajgönderen TurkmenCopur » 22 Haz 2015, 20:58

Halgurd yazdı:And you think this doesn't go for Kurdish either? Like I mentioned before, Soran Hamarash has even written an entire book showing the similarities between Kurdish and Sumerian (and also other ancient Near Eastern languages). Kurdish is also agglutinative, and it is also ergative (which is also found in Sumerian but not in Turkic languages).


Zeki Velidi Togan, Muazzez İlmiye Çığ, Begmyrat Gerey and the books of dozens of other scholar are clearly proving the Turk origin of the Sumerian language. The Dravidian language is very close to the Turkish and other Ural-Altaic languages. Not to forget the fact that the White-Huns(Hephthalites/Abdalits) were present in the Indian regions for a long time, and the fact that the Dravidians were a pre and non-Aryan(non-Indo European) population whom migrated from Turkistan to the Indian regions.

At the 11th century AD, in the map of Mahmud al-Kashgari, the Kurds are also drawn, but not as a seperate nation. Mahmud al-Kashgari, mentions of the "Country of Kurds", but also mentions of the "Country of Oghuz's" and "Country of Uygurs". Between the period of 0 AD and 900 AD, which historical source mentions the existance of the Kurds, and what do these sources tell about their origins?

Is it a coincidence that the words "Kuman/Kurman" and "Kurmanç" are almost identical? Why does the brothers of Selahaddin Eyyubi have obvious names of Turk origin: "Tacülmülk Böri", "Seyfülislam Tuğtekin", "Melik Adil Ebu Bekir" and "Şahinşah"?

Is it a coincidence that Egypt was first ruled by the Tulunids between 868-905 AD, then ruled during several periods by the first Mamluks between 935 - 969 AD, and then ruled by the Ayyubids between 1171 - 1250 AD, and then again ruled by the Mamluks between 1250 - 1517. We should understand that these dynasties were all of Turk origin. And a little bit earlier, at 830 AD, a tribe with the name "Kürt" is of Hun-Türk origin of the On-Ogur tribe, and contributes for the building of the Hungarian state. If we go back a little bit further in history, we see that the name "Kürt" is described in the Hun-Türk Yenisei Inscriptions located in the Altaian and South Siberian regions and dated between the 400 - 700 AD.

Halgurd yazdı:Nice you brought this up They called their land "ki-en-gir" meaning "place of the noble lords". This is very similar to Kurdish

Ki (Sumerian) Ci (Kurdish) - Meaning Place
Gir (Sumerian) Mir (Kurdish) - Meaning Lord (prince in Kurdish)

But I don't know how you say noble in Kurdish so I can't comment on that.


No, they called their population "Kenger/Kienger/Kangar". It is not at all similar to your example, it does not even make sense.

At the Orkhun Inscriptions of 6th -8th centuries AD, the words "Kengere" and "Kengü" are clearly mentioned, meaning "nation" and "home".

Kangar union, was a Turkic state in the territory of the entire modern Kazakhstan without Zhetysu. The ethnic name Kangar is a medieval name for the Kangly people, who are now part of the Kazakh, Uzbek,[4] and Karakalpak nations. The Kangly (Qangly, Kang, Kangar, Kengeres, Kangdy, Kangarlyk, Kankalis) were a Turkic tribe known from the 2nd century BCE to past the 12th century CE. The Western Branch of Kangars after a defeat from Kypchaks of the Kimek Kaganate attacked and defeated the Bulgars, establishing the Kangar state in Eastern Europe (840-990 CE). The capital of the Kangar union was located in the Ulytau mountains.

Etymology

A modern interpretation of the etymology is that ethnonym Kangar consists of two roots, Kang/Kang (Qang/Qang), a Turkic for "father, primogenitor", and ar "people, men",Kanger. An alternate etymology is that the word kangly in Old Turkic meant "wagon, vehicle", and is homonymous with the name of the Kangly tribe.

Kengeres' of the Orkhon inscriptions were known in the Islamic world and in the west as Bajanaks (Lat. Besenyo, Turcic Pechenek, Pechenegs) whose self-designation was Kangar. Constantine Porphyrogenitus wrote that "Kangar" meant nobleness and bravery.


Halgurd yazdı:Incorrect. The Sumerians had many Gods and did not worship just one. Their God 'Anu' was known as Dingir. Like I said before it may just be a loanword. Also I would appreciate if you can link these "conclusions" on the rituals being of Shamanic origin.


No you are incorrect. I am talking about the SKY TENGRI. The name of their SKY TENGRI GOD was DINGIR, the name of their GODS ON THE GROUND were named "EN"(means owner). There is one GOD IN THE SKY, and the other GODS are probably consisted of the humans on the ground.(source: 5000 Yıllık Sümer-Türkmen Bağları, Begmyrat Gerey)

Halgurd yazdı:Such as?


Source: Prof. Dr. Zeki Velidi Togan, Umumi Türk Tarihi

The great scholar of Near Eastern ancient history Fr. HOMMEL, in one of his work, he considers the Sumerians completely as a Turkish tribe: "A branch of the oldest ancestors of Turkish tribes, migrated during the period of 5000 BCE from their homeland in Central Asia to the Near East, and have formed the Sumerians." The material and sources that are found of these Sumerians, show us the structure of the Turkish languague of the old Neolithic age. And in another study of his, he explains that 350 words of the Sumerian language are of Turkish origin, he even created a sentence in Sumerian using the Turkish language. It is also a fact that the burial ceremony of the Sumerians is the same as the burial ceremonies of the Scythians and the Huns. There are words in the Elam language similar to Turkish language. The dressage(horse training) in them, the very close kinship degrees between the Hurri language and the Turkish language, and the fact that these Hurri's have the same dressage culture findings as the Huttal Turks of Central Asia and the Selcukids of the Near East, are all trails that show us the history of Proto Turks in the Near East region.

Halgurd yazdı:I don't see how this is relevant here.


Source: Prof. Dr. Timur Kocaoğlu

Friends,
The origin of the Phoenician, Sogd, Hebrew, Arabian, Greek, Cyrillic, Etrusc, Latin, Gök Türk alphabets is the Sumerian writing. The Sumerian writing has transformed in a period of 5000 years into other sub alphabets like(3 sub groups):
1. Phoenician, Gök Türk, Etrusc, Runic (Scandinavian) writings (Latin writing is occurred out of the Etruscan writing),
2. Phoenician, Sogd, Arabian, Hebrew alphabets
3. Old Greek alphabet and out of that the Cyrillic alphabet

Halgurd yazdı:You didn't even provide a single source lol.


As if you did? Your writing only consists of gossipping, cant answer to the questions i have asked you...
All my conclusion are based on the hundreds of scientific research books and articles published at TurkToresi.com. If you perform a research in this site, you can find all the sources for my statements in here, of course you need to know the Turk language, i cant translate everything...

Halgurd yazdı:This is wrong on so many levels. PKK at one point controlled most of the border with Turkey during the Kurdish civil war. It fought it's way against PDK which was backed by Turkey, Saddam and the West. The other faction, the PUK was more associated with being an ally of Iran and the East. During this time the PUK and PKK had good relations. Therefore what you are saying makes NO sense at all. PKK guerrillas were even trained by the Soviet KGB.


Kurdish civil war? Dont let me laugh... Being trained by the Soviet KGB only shows more proof that PKK is not independent, and that it was a puppet of several states.

Do you consider öcalan as the number one of the PKK? Learn Turkish and listen to what he confesses in this video when he was captured by the Turk Armed Forces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NTDSIGgf04. He admits clearly being an instrument of the US and other states, never having own goals, never being independent, always serving for the goals of the US, etcetera...

Why cant you answer a simple previous question of mine like "How could a group of terrorists be independent in countries which are being ruled by the US?"? Did the PKK won the Northern Iraqi and Northern Syrian regions with the lottery? Did the PKK ever fight the US in any kind of battle, which caused for the victory of the PKK which caused for their independence in the Northern Iraqi and Northern Syrian regions? The answer is NO, they never did! They are fully controlled by the US, and their leading commanders are all consisted of US special forces like the Delta Force. Their helpers and main soldiers are of Armenian and Israeli origin. And the frontiers consist of the ignorant poor Kurds whom have no idea with what they are dealing with. The US is playing with the PKK like a joystick, using the Kurdish frontiers who die for nothing, and nothing happens to the top level US commanders who are making the US state and its companies more and more richer.

Halgurd yazdı:I have only seen Turkish sources talk about this. The YPG includes several Communist and Anarchist organizations such as MLKP who are openly anti America. The only associations with the West it has as of now, is that their ideology is based on Murray Bookchin an American social thinker and that America is helping YPG with air strikes against ISIS.


The PKK is based on the richness of tribal leaders like Barzani and Talabani, the average Kurdish people are always poor and not taken care of, this system has nothing to do with Communism. By the way, it is obvious, that people like Barzani and Talabani are obviously of Jewish origin...

Like i said earlier during the Puppets Battle of Aynel Arab, the Syrian PKK was openly(not hiding it anymore) leaded by the Delta Force(special force unit of the US). And just before this battle, the Syrian and Iraqi PKK terrorists openly screamed "biji serok obama", why do they say this, because they were anti-american? Do not let me laugh...
Halgurd yazdı:bla bla bla


Obviously i am not going to repeat myself, and you are free to ignore my arguments, but my statemens are already present in the previous comments, read it again and enlighten yourself.

What is the date of the oldest Persian language? The age of the Sumerians who came to Mezopotamia from Central Asia is estimated 5000 BCE. Sumerians spoke a Proto Turk Language, and out of the Proto Turks, thousands of years later, many other presentday West Eurasian languages were created. So, in stead of believing in the crappy Indo-European non-scientific hypothesis in which they equal every historical population to this group in a non logical way(even the Huns spoke Indo European language according to these non scientific academicians you are so eager to believe into), the truth is that the Proto Turks are the ancestors of all of these Indo-European people and other West Eurasian originated people.

What is to be explained more, are you handicapted?, cant you interprete my arguments about Mahmud al-Kashgari? I will not repeat my arguments.

Halgurd yazdı:This is the thing. Between this period there is none because the word "Kurd" was not an ethnic term. It was an umbrella term used to refer to a bunch of tribes inhabiting the mountainous region who spoke an Iranic language. My tribe, for example, is first mentioned by Ptolemy who lived between 90AD and 168 AD.


Haha, this is were you get funny. It was just a simple question, Between the period of 0 AD and 900 AD, which historical source mentions the existance of the Kurds, and what do these sources tell about their origins? At this point, i think it is necessary to repeat a part of my previous comment:

And a little bit earlier, at 830 AD, a tribe with the name "Kürt" is of Hun-Türk origin of the On-Ogur tribe, and contributes for the building of the Hungarian state. If we go back a little bit further in history, we see that the name "Kürt" is described in the Hun-Türk Yenisei Inscriptions located in the Altaian and South Siberian regions and dated between the 400 - 700 AD.


What is the oldest historical evidence for the Kurdish language? Did you know that the Turkmens and Kurds were both called Etrak and Ekrad, and does it not seem to you that the words "Türk" and "Kürt" are so similar? The oldest historical Kurdish scripts are of the 15th-17th centuries AD(source: Bruinessen, http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanb ... celeri.pdf. Why are there no earlier examples?

A paragraph of the Umumi Türk Tarihi book of Zeki Velidi Togan:

Azerbaycan'a muhaceretleri katiyen sabit olan Türk kavmi Hunlar'dır. Doğuavrupa'daki Hunlar'ın bir kısmı milâdî 445 de, yani daha Atila'nın hayatında, Kafkasları geçerek Azerbaycan'ın Mugan taraflarına gelip yerleşiyorlar [301]. Arap menbalarında ismi Belasegân şeklinde yazılan cenubî Mugan şehrinin Ak-Hun denilen bu Hunlar tarafından inşa olunduğu rivayet olunuyor [302]. Bence bu kelime, Ortaasya'nın Balasagun şehrinin isimle birdir [303]. Bu Hunlara Ermeni menbalarından Khaylendurk denilmektedir. Bu mürekkep kelimenin son sözü Türkden muharref olabilir [304]. 7.
nci asırda Araplar geldiği zaman cenubî Mugan'da bulunan - bu şehre nisbetle - Kürdlerin zikri geçmektedir [305]. Fakat bu Kürd kelimesi, o zaman daha ziyade «hayvan sürülerine sahib göçebeler» («ashâb savâ'jm») mânasmda kullanılmış olduğundan, milliyeti ifade etmez. Horasan'da (Kuhistan'da) ki Khalac Türkleri de bu yüzden Araplarca «Akrâd» cümlesinden sayılmıştır.


I have no time to translate all of this carefully. In short Zeki Velidi Togan, tells about the settlement of the Hephthalite White Huns, from the Caucasian regions into the region of Mugan(located presentday Azerbaijan-Iran)(also called Belasegân). These White Huns came into Mugan at 445 AD. The Arabic sources confirm this event and call the Mugan region as Belasegân. This name is the same as the name found in Central Asia: Balasagun. The Huns who settled in Mugan were called Khaylen-durk, the final part meaning "Turk". The Arabic sources mention that the people who lived in this region in the 7th century, were named "Kurds". Meaning of the word "Kürt" is "Nomads who are busy with herds", and is not equal to an ethnic term.

So the Kurds were obviously nomadic Huns who spoke a Turk language, and who were later called Kurds or Ekrads by Arabians. The Khalach Turk tribe of the Khorasan-Kuhistan region who is obviously of Turk origin was also called Ekrad/Akrad. In time, just like the Selcukid dynasty(also of royal Hunnic origin) did, they started talking/mixing the Persian and Turk language, which ended in the sub languages like Kurmanci.

The origin of the word "Kurmanc" is linguistically obvious the same with the Turk word "Kuman". Look at the name of former Kyrgyzstan president "Kurmanbek Bakiyev".

The names Böri, Tuğtekin and Şahinşah obviously proof the Ayyubid dynasty was of Turk origin, ignore it or not, i will not repeat, it is meaningless.

The Guti appear in Old Babylonian copies of inscriptions ascribed to Lugal-Anne-Mundu of Adab as among the nations providing his empire tribute. These inscriptions locate them between Subartu in the north, and Marhashe and Elam in the south.

Sabirler, Sabarlar ya da Suvarlar, 6. yüzyılda Batı Sibirya ve Kuzey Kafkasya civarında ortaya çıkan bir Türk topluluğu.

El-Mesûdî'ye göre, Hazarlar, Sabar Türkleri'nin devamıdır ve "Hazar" adıyla Bizanslı ile İranlılar tarafından tanınmışlardır, fakat aynı zamanda "Türk" olarak da anılmışlardır.


2. Gutiler

Gutiler, MÖ 3000’lerden itibaren doğu Toroslar ve Zagros Dağları’nda yaşamakta olup Sümerlerin ve Akadların yıkılmasına sebep olan çok güçlü bir kavim olarak görülmektedirler. Bu kavmin kimler olduğu hakkında Gutların kendilerine ait kral listelerinden hareketle farklı görüşler ortaya konmuştur. Bunlardan ilki, Yahudi asıllı ve ATATÜRK döneminde Sümeroloji kürsüsünün kurulması için Almanya’dan Türkiye’ye getirtilen Benno Landsberger, Gutlarla ilgili makalesinde bunların şahıs isimleri bağlantısıyla Türk olabilecekleri tezini ortaya koymuştur.11 Bu kral adları El Ulumuş (memleketi büyütmüş),Yarlagan (haber veren), Tirigan (yardım eden, diri kan), Şarlak (kanatlı ve memeli hayvan adı) şeklinde Türkçe anlamları ile ortaya konmuştur. Yine Kemal Balkan, paralel görüşleri dile getirmiştir.12 Bundan başka, Ekrem Memiş, yukarıdaki tezleri destekleyen görüşler ortaya koymuştur.13 Türkiye kaynaklı bu görüşlerin dışında J.Derakhshani, Gutilerin Tukri yani Turani bir kavim olduğunu ifade etmektedir.14 Pavel Dolukhanov, Diakonoff’a atıf yaparak bu kavmin bugünkü Dağıstan dilleri ile uzaktan akraba olduğunu ifade etmektedirler.15 Bu görüşler, hemen hemen ortak bir yöne parmak basmakta olup Gutilerin Turan bölgesi ile bağlantısına işaret etmektedirler. Zaten, yakın dönemde Hakkari dağlarında bulunmuş olan ve Veli Sevin tarafından yayınlanan taş steller, bu bölgede Turani motiflerin etkisinin olduğuna işaret eden en kuvvetli arkeolojik belgelerdir.

http://www.bilinmeyenturktarihi.com/tag/gutiler


Sümerler ve Gutiler

Sümerler ve Guti (Kut)lerin ırki ve dil özellikleri itibarıyla tek "karşılaştırılabilir" unsurun Türkler olduğu artık kabul edilmiştir.
Konuyla ilgili olarak Türk ve Batılı araştırmacıların bu gerçeği ifade eden çok sayıda eseri mevcuttur.

Ancak, son derece objektif bir yaklaşımla konuyu inceleyen Prof. Dr. A. Haluk Çay'ın a.g. eserinden aşağıdaki alıntılar aydınlatıcıdır.
"Anadolu'daki ilk Türk varlığı ile ilgili olarak elimizdeki bilgiler Sümerler ve Kut (Guti) kavimlerine aittir. Özellikle Sümerler ile Kutlar (Gutiler)'ı kendilerine maletmek isteyen Kürtçü ideolojik yaklaşımlar bizi öncelikle Sümer ve Kut Meselesinin haline zorlamaktadır.
Bizim Sümerler'i veya Kutlar'ı Türk tarihine maletmek gibi bir endişemiz ve düşüncemiz olmadığını öncelikle belirtmemiz gerekiyor. Çünkü Türk tarihinin bu türden zorlamalara ihtiyacı yoktur.

Her şeyden önce Önasya'nın Sümer, Elam ve Hurri gibi medeni kavimlerinin belli bir etnik grubu temsil etmediğini vurgulamak gerekiyor. Önasya'nın bu toplulukları, aynı çağda ortaya çıkan Hindistan'daki, M.Ö. 2000'li yıllarda Uzakdoğu'da görülen büyük devletler ve medeniyetler kuran kavimler gibi, biri diğeri üzerine gelerek karışmış, tesalüp etmiş konglomeralardan ibaret oldukları düşüncesi kanaatimizce yerindedir. Antropolojik buluntular, Sümer ve Kut dilinden kalan örnekler Sümer, Kut, Elam, Hurri gibi adlarla anılan bu toplulukların bünyesine brakisefal Ural-Altay kavimlerinin bilhassa atlı-göçebe Türk unsurların karışmış olduğunu göstermektedir. Eski Önasya Tarihi uzmanlarından Fr. Hommel, Sümerler'i tamamıyla bir Türk kavmi olarak kabul etmekte, Orta Asya'dan M.Ö. 5000'lerde kopan Türk gruplarının Önasya'ya geldiklerini ve Sümerler'i teşkil ettiklerini ileri sürmektedir. Sümer dilinden 350 kelimeyi Türkçe ile açıklayan Fr. Hommel'in bu iddialı tezine karşı V. Christian ile Benno Landsberger daha ihtiyatlı davranmakta, Sümerce'de Türkçe ile birlikte diğer Ural-Altay kavimlerinin de dil hatıraları olduğunu kabul etmektedirler.

B. Landsberger, Sümer dilinin özelliğini karşılaştırmalı olarak incelemiştir. Bilindiği gibi Sami dilleri kursif şekildedir... Halbuki Türkçe bununla taban tabana zıt bir karakterde olup komplexif bir yapıdadır. Landsberger bu karşılaştırmayı yaptıktan sonra Sümer dilinin, yalnız fenomenolojik bakımından değil, aynı zamanda tarihi bakımdan bütün Asya boyunca uzayan dağlık havalide konuşulan geniş bir dil grubuna dahil olup, bu grubun bugün de varlığını sürdüren Türk dilleri olduğunu kabul etmektedir.

Sümer dilini sonradan kabul eden Akadlar bu dilin Önasya'nın diğer kavimleri arasında yayılmasında önemli rol oynamışlardır.
Sümerlerle Türkler arasındaki münasebeti dil açısından araştıran bir diğer bilim adamı da Osman Nedim Tuna'ilve.

O.N. Tuna diller arasındaki münasebetin tesbitinde birtakım kriterler tesbit etmiştir. Ona göre: "Birbiriyle hiç ilgisi olmayan dünya dillerinde, tesadüfi kelime uygunlukları bir mucize kabilin-dedir. Örnekleri bir elin beş parmağını geçmez... Diğer yandan iki dil arasında, tarihi bir münasebeti ispatlamaya yetecek en az sayıdaki benzer çiftin kaç olması hususunda belirtilen sayı oldukça düşüktür. Benzerlik sınırlarını tayin eden şartların gevşeklik veya sıkılığı yalnız ikiden yediye kadar çift tarihi bir münasebeti ispatlamaya kafidir. O. Nedim Tuna, Sümerce'de 165 Türkçe kelime tespit etmiş, bunların "tesadüfi benzerlik"\e açıklanamayacağını, bunun matematik bakımından da mümkün olmadığını, ayrıca tesbit edilen bu kelimelerin büyük çoğunlukla "benzerlik" ve "uygunluk" sözlerinden de öte gerçek anlamda Türkçe olduğunu ortaya koymuştur...

Yapılan tespitlere göre prehistorik dönemde Kutlanın (Gutiler) Hazar denizinin güneydoğusu ile Amuderya/Ceyhan (Oxus) nehri arasındaki bölgede yani Batı Türkistan'da oturdukları anlaşılmaktadır. M.Ö. 2500-2400 yıllarında Kutlar batıya yönelerek Zağros (İran-Irak sınırı) dağlık bölgesinin kuzeydoğusuna yerleşmişlerdir.

Eski Akod (M.Ö. 2340-2159) zamanında başlayarak, Kutlardan kalan az sayıdaki belgede ve onlarla çağdaş olanlarda, eski Babil (M.Ö. 1894-1600) çağının geç zamanlarına kadar her devirden yazılı kaynaklarda geçen kişi, yer ve nesne adları toplanmıştır. Bu malzemenin değerlendirilmesi sonrasında B. Landsberger, "tarihte Türklerle en yakın münasebettar olan, hatta belki de Türklerle ayniyet gösteren kabile Kutlar/Gutilerdir, demektedir.".

Sümer ve Guti (Kut) topluluklarının Türk menşeli olmaları Messoud Fany tarafından da benimsenmiştir.
Yukarıdaki alıntılarda verilen bilgiye, Fırat kıyısında Mari bölgesinde bulunan tabletlerin Sümer nüfuzunun bölgede etkin oldukları döneme ait olduklarını ve bu tabletlerin 13'ünde TURUKKU isimli bir kavimin anıldığını da eklemek gerekir. Dolayısıyla, bu tabletler de Sümerlerin Türklüğünü düşündürebilecek tarihi belgelerdir.

Kaynakça
Kitap: TÜRKİYE'NİN ETNİK YAPISI
Yazar: Ali Tayyar Önder

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2392


Again no time to translate all of this. In short, many academicians like Benno Landsberger, say that the Guti(Gut/Kut) tribe was of Turk origin. The names of their leaders obviously show their Turk origin. Bu kral adları El Ulumuş (memleketi büyütmüş),Yarlagan (haber veren), Tirigan (yardım eden, diri kan), Şarlak (kanatlı ve memeli hayvan adı) şeklinde Türkçe anlamları ile ortaya konmuştur.

At the same Sumerian periods, there was also a tribe named "Turukku". After the collapse of the Guti rule, the tribes with the following names began to rule: Guti, Lulu, Subar. You can obviously see that these were all of Turk origin.

Also, the Persian language is not an agglunctive type of language, it is of the faked up Indo-European term origin, which is definitely not agglunctive. So if you consider that the Kurds were of Persian origin, then their language has nothing to do with the Proto Turk language of the Sumerians. But, obviously you cant answer the question of what happened to the Kurds between the Sumerians and the 10nd century AD, because the Kurds were obviously Sakha-Hun-Turk people who began speaking Persian language and got assimilated in time...

Read this paragraph of the book "Society and History: Essays in Honor of Karl August Wittfogel":

Hammurapi, in the inscription just quoted, names four such border-nations. The first has been restored as Elam, but this is uncertain. The others are Gutium, Subartu and Tukris. Leaving aside Subartu, we find the Guti here associated with the Tukris, a nation comparatively rarely mentioned, whose settlements adjoined the Guti territory in the east or south-east. As with the Guti, there is an old reference to their hving been in Western Persia in remote antiquity, in a story from Boghazköy about a prehistoric Elamite king(Autaluma), in which a king of Tukris, Kiklipatalli, is mentioned, it has been generally accepted as a further instance of mythical history. If we leave aside that isolated reference, the Tukris would appear to have been contemporaneous with their Guti neighbors. The siblant at the end of the name is presumably an indigenous case-ending, so that it is actually Tukri. For reasons that will become clear later, I assume that Tukri and Guti were two closely allied brother nations that came together to Western Persia and who left it together shortly before the end of the third millenium.

https://books.google.nl/books?id=q8Nx4xNK6I8C


It is obviously, that the origin of the word Guti is the same as the words Tukri and Turukku/Turukki, which shows it is equal to the word "Turk". Also the Guti period was obviously an union of Sumerian tribes, only the dynasty changes. Their nation/population is called Kenger, and the fact that there is a tribe with the name Subar shows very obviously that all these Sumerian tribes, including the Guti, were of Proto Turk origin. The Subars were the ancestors of many medıeval Hun-Turk tribes. Also, the medieval Turk-Hun names Kenger and Subar were associated with each other.

Zeki Velidi Togan:

Büyük devletler- kuran Türk kavimleri. Türklerin tarihten önceki devirlerde cihanşümul bir devlet kurmuş olduklarını gösteren mühim bir nokta da, tarihî devirlerde isimleri tarihin muhtelif devirlerinde eski dünyanın muhtelif ülkelerinde görülen Türk kabileleridir. Bu kabilelerden en çok dikkatimizi çekenleri Çigil (İçgil), Subar (Sibir), Abar (İbir), Kang (Keng), Ogur (Gur, Z ile Oğuz ve Guz), Kumedh, nihayet Türk isimleridir


Milâdın 305 yılında Sabir Türkleri, Kafkasya'nın şimalinden cenubuna geçtiler. Bunlar, eski dünyanm muhtelif taraflarında izleri görülen Subar (Sub + er) ve bu ismin muhtelif telâffuz şekillerine göre adlanan Türk boyunun Hazar'lara karışarak yaşıyan bir kısmıdır; nasıl ki ayni kavmin adı Suvar telâffuz olunan bir kısmı da, Edil Bulgarlarının bir kabilesi sayılıyordu. Bu cihetten Edil havzasındaki Sabir ve Suvar'ların lehçesi de, Hazar ve Bulgarlarınki gibi Lir-Türkçesi olmak icap ederdi; fakat Mahmud Kaşgarî'nin «Suvarm» diyerek de tesmiye ettiği Suvar'ların şivesinden naklettiği kelimeler, -hattâ bir yerde de cümle- bunun ŞAZ-Türkçesi olduğunu göstermektedir. Bu kavmin diğer bazı kısımları daha 14. üncü asırda Batı Siberya'da yaşamakta devam etmektir, ki Sibir (Siberya) ülkesi adı bunlardan gelmektedir. Kafkasya'nın cenubuna Kür nehri havzasına geçen Sabir'-lerin bir kısmı, 515-51 6 ydmda Anadolu'ya geçerek Kappadokya'ya, Ankara ve Kastamonu vilâyetlerine kadar sokuldular. 522 de bunların reisleri Zigi-bi isminde birisi idi, ki bunun doğrusu Çigil-biy, yahut Cılkı-biy olabilir. 527 de bunlar Anadolu'dan çekilmiş olup, yalnız Arran ve Şirvan'ı idare ediyorlardı. Sonraları da, kâh Sasanî'lerle birleşerek Bizanslara, kâh Bizanslarm müttefiki sıfatiyle Sasanî'lere karşı savaşlarda bulundular. Arran ve Şirvan'da Sabir'ler 100.000 hane, yani takriben yarım milyon nüfus teşkil ediyorlardı.

531 yılında bu Sabir'leri, «Sabir Hunları» ismi altında ve Bizans'ın Sasanî İran'a karşı müttefiki olarak görüyoruz. 555 de onlar tekrar İranlılar ile harp ettiler [310]. Üç sene soma Derbend civarında, hâkimiyet dâvası yüzündçn Avar'lar (Varkhuni'ler) ile çarpışarak Derbend civarındaki mâlikânelerini kaybettiler [311]. Fakat Hazar'larla müttefik olarak Arran, Gürcistan, Vaspurakan (Van havzası) ve Sisecan (Karabağ) vilâyeüerini uzun zaman idare ettiler [312]. Kür nehrinin şimalinde şimdiki Şamahı'nm garbinde, bugün harabe halinde bulunan ve ticareti ileri olan Kabala şehri bunların hükümet merkezi olmuştur [313]. Bu çağda en büyük nüfus Hazar'-ların elinde olduğundan,. Tabarî tarihinde: «Azerbaycan ve mülhakatı Hazar'lar memleketi» denilmiştir [314]. Bütün Azerbaycan ile cenubî Kafkasya'yı ve hattâ Derbend'i ele geçiren Sasanî Nuşirvan, Sabir'lere, bu memlekette İran tabii olarak kalmağa müsaade etmekle beraber, şimalî Azerbaycan'a dahi İran unsurunu iskân ederek Türkleri akalliyette bırakmak siyasetini takip etti [315]. Bu arada, Arran ve Karabağ'da İranlı Siyâsice'leri [316] ve Tiflis taraflarında da Sogd'lardan bir zümreyi [317] yerleştirdi; Türkler ise daha içerilere atddı. Yine Nuşirvan zamanmda batıdan gelen ve Sasanî'lerle yaptıkları harplerden soma da, on bin tane kadar mühim bir küde teşkil eden Bulgar ve Belencer zümreleri Azerbaycan'ın güney kısımlarında yerleştirildi [318]



Halgurd yazdı:Again, this would just prove that Sumerians were not exclusive to Turks as you are trying to make it out so this is in no way relevant here.


Is there another earlier written language earlier than the Sumerian Kenger language? No! Then, if the Sumerians did not speak an Indo European or Semitic language, where they then people who came from the planet Mars, and spoke a Marsian language?

Halgurd yazdı:The Kurdish civil war in the 1990s was primarily fought between KDP, PKK and PUK.

Being trained by the Soviet KGB is proof that it was not a "puppet of America". Still today America calls the PKK a terrorist organization.


This statement of yours obviously shows you are so stupid. I showed you the confession video of the NUMBER ONE OF PKK, öcalan himself confesses being a puppet of the US! Also, who brought down the Soviet Union? Was it not the US and their CIA agents like Gorbatchov? How can it be that businessmen like Abramovich are allowed to perform business in England?

Denying every kind of simple fact shows clearly how stupid you are, pitty for the time i spend for taking you seriously. Will not repeat the same mistakes...

Accept it PKK is a simple terrorist organization, and they have no other ideology than "money" and "drugs dealing". Tell me something, how can the PKK openly conduct illegal drugs dealing projects in Western countries like in the Netherlands? Who allows this, could it be the US?

Halgurd yazdı:You should make a distinction between PKK/YPG guerrillas and the people who support them. The people who were shouting that were not guerrillas, they were civilians who were grateful for the air strikes in Kobane.


No, again you are so ignorant and stupid. The people shouting "biji serok obama" were PKK terrorists preparing to go the Aynel-Arab region to fight in there. By the way, the majority of these cowards sought help from the Turk Armed Forces and retreated from war against ISIS. PKK cant even defend a little town with only a population of 45,000 people. How, could such a pussy terrorist organization be free, or be independent, THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY PUPPETS OF THE US, ACCEPT IT!
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