Türk Düşmanları İle Ön-Türk Tarihi Hakkında Bir Tartışma

[TurkmenCopur]

Oh good lord. You have a tinfoil hat nailed to your head. I don't see any point in continuing to discuss anything with you at this point.

Coward.

I smell a ban.

Coward.

[TurkmenCopur]

You believe the most insane ridiculous things. You've proven yourself to be a crank of the top order. I expect you'll post something later about an Elvis sighting in Istanbul and then post something about how Elvis was really a Turk. You just cannot be taken seriously sorry.

Again offtopic, talking about Elvis, shows how low your level of IQ is... You just cant reply on the content of my message can you? You know i am right, you are a coward!

[TurkmenCopur]

If a language is not Indo European or Semitic that does not make it Altaic by default.

All academicians accept the Altaic origin of the Sumerian language. I guess, you think the Sumerians spoke a language from Mars, and they teleported to Mars and suddenly they were vanished from human history... This is how unreliable your arguments are...

If a language is not Indo European or Semitic that does not make it Altaic by default. The Basque language and many Caucasian languages are not Indo European either or Semitic or Turkic or Altaic. And we are talking about an ancient extinct language. It's possible it was part of an entire language family that just not longer exists.

So, just for once, use your logics, everyone accept the fact that the Sumerian language is not an Indo-European(Aryan,....) and not a Semitic language, and the Sumerian language is an Uralic-Altaic language that originally came from Central Asia? Who could these Sumerians be? Did they fly out of the sky? Were they aliens from planet Mars?

[TurkmenCopur]

You'll find plenty of common haplogroups, but their distribution will be totally different, I reckon.

In any case, you do not appear to even attempt to comprehend and look into autosomal genetics and the definite proof it has produced for a close genetic relationship between Turks and their neighbours. You do not seem susceptible to rational arguments.

Anyway, did you write everything on that site? I've taken a look, and there's like 100's of topics started by one user, was that you?

Do you even know how the pseudo-scientific theories of Turkic languages as the base of all other languages came to be developed?

Ottoman Turkish was heavily interspersed with Arabic and Persian. When the language was being reformed in the 30's, they couldn't find genuine Turkish equivalents for all those words. So what did they do? Simply 'prove' that many of these words, and later, that all languages were actually derived from Turkish and thus there was nothing wrong with keeping them. You're just continuing a pseudo-scientific discourse that has been abandoned by reasonable researchers for decades now.

Wisen up, read this:
http://library.atilim.edu.tr/shares/lib ... s_2000.pdf

You are very simple, you can not reply to my messages, you do not gain any kind of leverage during a discussion by trying to change the subject. You, yourself dont value Y-Chromosome DNA, and then you are talking about genetics and science, you make me laugh Your approach shows how weak and bad intended you are.

Answer me this, did you know that genetic mutations occurred tens of thousands of years ago? What is the oldest human language that has been found? What are the dates of the oldest findings of the Indo-European(the term does not even make sense) and Semitic languages?

[TurkmenCopur]

The refer ''...It does not seem an exaggeration to say that at this juncture the Khaquan was able practically to give a new ruler to the Greek empire ....'' , has to do with the physical excistence of Bardanes/Philipicus , not in any political dependency or controlled by Khagan.

The Roman political system is based that the person of the emperor follow the will of the Senate, the citizens and the army.
Both of those 2 emperors murdered by revolution made because of contrast to each of them, Senate, Army and municipalities of the capital .
Khazars couldn't advance or control anything. Neither Romans/Byzantines could control Khazars. Both are independent allies, having for a certain period close relations.

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It is because you have learned/developed a different view to which medieval Turks rejected themselves.

The any establishment of any Kumans or any other like those you mention, was so much insignificant, that not mentioned.

A reason was that those establishment populations was in low numbers, and had military role, that means extend direct to danger of their life to the war zone. Some of them that survived transported to Balkans, to fight to other fronts.

Medieval Turks disconnect any relations of Proto Turk or any Turkish influence to local Greeks of their time in Anatolia.

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Learn English if you dont understand the following text, or translate it.

The point of this gory tale is to show the influence which the Khazars at this stage exercised over the destinies of the East Roman Empire - in addition to their role as defenders of the Caucasian bulwark against the Muslims. Bardanes-Philippicus was an emperor of the Khazars' making, and the end ofjustinian's reign of terror was brought about by his brother-in-law, the Kagan.

Medieval Turks disconnect any relations of Proto Turk or any Turkish influence to local Greeks of their time in Anatolia.

Sumerians are the natives of Anatolia, Sumerians are the Proto Turks. What is the date of the oldest Greek language? Did you know that many languages and their alphabets, including the Greek one, is a descendant of the Sumerian language and alphabet, linguistic academicians clearly define this fact.

[TurkmenCopur]

Surely you must notice the high incidence of haplogroups typical of, or originating from, West Asia such as J1, J2, R1b, G among both Assyrians and Turks? And the comparative lack of those among Kazakh.

Now that's over with, let me make this clear once more, not to you, since you wouldn't recognize valid information if it were to hit you in the head, but for others who might even have the slightest doubt that there's any shred of credibility in your ramblings:
To determine the genetic origins of a people autosomal DNA>Haplogroups, since it gives a breakdown of an individual's total ancestry composition.

Now, i am going to enlighten you with some results of haplogroup J1, J2, R1b and G. Remember: "ALL HAPLOGROUPS FOUND IN TÜRKİYE ARE FOUND IN CENTRAL ASIAN, CAUCASIAN AND BALKAN TURK TRIBES WITH VERY HIGH, NUMBER 1 FREQUENCIES". If you have any question about other Y-DNA haplogroups, please let me know, i am ready to enlighten your bad intended mind.

I own you man, your mask is down, TÜRKİYE TÜRKS ARE %100 THE SAME AS CENTRAL ASIA, BALKAN AND CAUCASUS TURKS, AND WE TÜRKİYE TÜRKS ARE 100% DESCENDED FROM TURKS, HUNS AND SAKHA! END OF THE POINT.

Y-DNA Haplogroup J

At the Daghestan region, among the Avar Turks, Haplogrup J is found with 72%(30/42) and 94,0%(17/18) frequencies. The subgroups belong to J1, J2 and J2b. The fact that among such a deep rooted Turkish tribe like the Avars is found the Europoid haplogroup J with such high frequencies, means that during future ancient dna studies about Huns and Gök Türks, different Europoid haplogroups could be found. In Xinjiang, among the Uygur Turks Haplogrup J2 is found with 34%, in the same region among the Uzbek Turks Haplogrup J and J2 is found with 34,8%. Among the Azerbaijan Turks in Azerbaijan, Haplogroup J is found with a percentage of 57,9%(11/19). Among the Uzbek Turks in the Balkh region of Afghanisthan, Haplogroup J2 is found with a percentage of 60,0%(3/5). This shows that, from West to East Eurasian regions, this haplogroup is found in specific Turkish tribes within the majority.

Among the Kumik Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2 is 42,5%(31/73). Among the Kuban Nogay Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2 is 37,9%(33/87). Among the Balkar Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2 is 19,3%(26/135). Among the Karachay Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2 is 18,9%(13/69).

At the Khusnutdinova et al 2008 study, among a group of Kazakh Turks, the Y-DNA Haplogroup J is found with a frequency of 18%, at the same study haplogroup C is found with a similar frequency(25%) and Khusnutdinova comments the following statement about these two findings: "in relatively high frequencies".

Selçuklulardan itibaren İran 1000 yıldır kesintisiz olarak Türk hanedanları tarafından yönetilmektedir. Since the Selcukids, Iran is uninterruptedly managed by Turk royal families and tribes. Before this, during the Hun and Sakha periods, this region was again dominated or had an impact by Turks. The Qajar royal family managed Iran from the 18th century until the year 1925. The descendants of the founder of the Qajar royal family, the grandsons of Mohammad Khan Qajar and Fath-Ali Shah Qajar were tested for Y-DNA, their haplogroup was J1. The fact that J1 is found among such a deep-rooted Turk tribe, means that this haplogroup is associated with the Proto Turks.

Among the Proto Turks, in Hungary, during the years between 1270 - 1100 BCE, J2a is found.

Fotoğraflar...

Source: viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199

Y-DNA Haplogroup G

Among the Madjar tribe of the Kazakh Turks, Y-DNA haplogroup G1a is found with 86,7%. Among the Argin tribe of the Kazakh Turks, Y-DNA haplogroup G1a is found with 65,0%. And also, among the Kazakh Turks in the South-West region of the Altai Republic, Y-DNA haplogroup G2a is found with 6,7% and G1 is found with 10,0%.

Additionally, recently at 7 april 2015, at the the presidency of Oleg Balanovsky, a group of academicians that are Turk haters, published an article of their new study. In here, among 4 Kazakh Turkish tribes and 1 Bashkir Turkish tribe, haplogroup G1 is found with high frequencies. This study shows that as the site turktoresi.com, we were right with our earlier determinations about the Turkish origin of the haplogroup G. In the study that was done, from all Eurasian regions the members of different nations are tested for the Y-DNA G1 marker, and although the fact that out of all of these nations the tribes with the highest frequencies belonged to the Kazakh Turks, in a very twisted way the authors of the article argue that the origin of this haplogroup is of Iranian/Persian origin. However, like it is shown in the same study, the haplogrup G frequency for the 3 groups of Iran does not go higher than %5. So, just not to use the word "Turk", or just not to say "Proto Turk", they use fictive and empty terms like "Indo European" or "Indo Iranian" that do not comply with the scientific logical rules. This shows, that that they are shamelessly and openly performing a hatred against the Turkish history. This, actually just looks like the events that happens at our sports media, and earlier happened during earlier times at our political media, when the false propagandas full with hatred were made intentionally against the Ataturkist Heroes that are called Fenerbahçe and Ergenekonists. The reason of the similarity, is because all these kind of attacks are being planned and implemented by thia CIA, and a little bit by the CIA and old English intelligence agents in Russia and China.

Now, if we should return to the results of this new study, the publishing of these results are of great importance:

-Karkaralinsky Kazakh Turks: 52,8%(94/178),
-Amangeldinsky Kazakh Turks: 25,5%(36/141),
-Akzharsky Kazakh Turks: 55,6%(50/90),
-Magzhan Zhumabaev Kazakh Turks: 25,5%(30/87),
-Magzhan Bashkir Turks: 12,0%(15/125)

Among the Karachay Turks, the frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup G2a is 31,9%(22/69). Among the Balkar Turks, the frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup G2a is 32,6%(44/135). Among the Kumik Turks, the frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup G2a is 13,7%(10/73). Among the Kuban Nogay Turks, the frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup G2a is 13,8%(12/87).

Khadizhat Dibirova et al 2009, finds 54%(46/86) of Haplogroup G among the Terek Cossack Turks.

Among the Proto Turks, G2a is found in Germany during the years between 5500 - 4900 BCE. At the year 3300 BCE, G2a was found in Italy among our ancestors that is called Ötzi, his body had Proto Turkish stamps.

Fotoğraflar...

Source: viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199

Y-DNA Haplogroup R

At the Altai Republic, among the Altai Turks, Haplogroup R is found with a frequency of 44,1%. The subgroup R1a1 is found with 40,7%.

In Turkmenistan, among the Turkmen Turks, Haplogroup R1a is found with a frequency of 72,6%.

In Bashkortostan, among the Bashkir Turk tribes, the highest frequency of Haplogrup R1b1a is 86,0%.

At the Khusnutdinova et al 2008 study, among a group of Bashkir Turks Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b3 is found with 82%, other Kyrgyz and Altaic Turk groups have R1b3 with higher than %50, and Khusnutdinova groups these R1b3 found in the Bashkir, Kyrgyz and Altai Turks with the results of the Turks in Türkiye: "R1b3 is not specific to Europe".

Among the Proto Turks, for example in the Samara region of Russia, during the years between 5650 - 5555 BCE, R1b1a is found. Among the Sakha Turks, for example in the Sebÿstei region of the Altai Republic, at the year 500 BCE, R1a1a is found. Among the Hun Turks, for example in the Duurlig Nars region of North-East Mongolia, during the years between 300 BCE - 100 AD, R1a1 is found.

Fotoğraflar...

Source: viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199

[TurkmenCopur]

Actually no. Most scholars do not believe Sumerian was an Altaic language. In fact the belief in Altaic languages constituting an actual language family at all is controversial. They're grouped together more out of convenience, like the Caucasian languages.

There are numerous language isolates throughout the world. If a language is not Semitic or Indo European that does not mean we must assume its Turkic. The Elamites, Etruscans and Hattie language were also language isolates in the ancient world.

Etruscan is also like Sumerian a Proto Turk language. DONT BEND AND CURL YOURSELF, SUMERIANS ARE THE PROTO TURKS AND THEY SPOKE THE PROTO TURK LANGUAGE.

[TurkmenCopur]

No, they come from Phoenician. Sumerians did not have an alphabet.

Your message is not logically and also not right. If the Sumerians did not have any alphabet, then how is that so many tablets are being read by Sumerolog academicians? Please, you are lowering your level, you are being laughable.

[TurkmenCopur]

The word ''making'' is used, from author, abusively.

Bardanes/Philipicus is not a produce of Khazars.

The refer, has to do with the physical existence of Bardanes/Philipicus, not in any political dependency or controlled by Khagan.

Bardanes-Philippicus was a man that took advantage from the reason that the Khagan did not tried to deliver him, like khagan did with Justignian II.

Bardanes Philipicus was an ambitious man, as also Justignian II was.

Their actions planed by themselves not the Kagan.

Both, of those 2 emperors murdered by revolution made because of contrast to each of them, Senate, Army and municipalities of the capital, and this has nothing to do with the Khagan but with their personal ambitious.

Bardanes was the son of the patrician Nikephorus, who was of Armenian extraction from an Armenian colony in Pergamum. Philippikos Bardanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He early showed his ambition to claim the throne of Byzantium and the emperor Tiberius on third banished to the island of Kefalonia.
At 711 was recalled from exile and sent by Emperor Justinian II in Kherson of Crimea to quell an attitude.
There he won the support of notables Romans/Byzantines of the region but also of the Khazars.

How Bardanes (reign 711 to 713) is a khazars' making?
Do Khazars planned his revolution? no, he did. They just support him.
Support does not mean control.



''.... When God created the universe, he first made the carefree infidels....For the construction of the world is special to the Greeks.....''. Not Proto Turks.

When Turkmen came to Asia minore / Anatolia did not found any Proto Turk.

They found, Greeks/Rums. (Also Armenians, Arabs, Persians, Jews )

Rumi explaining the nature of his time local Greeks/Rums complete disconnect them from anything Turkish.

That is the reason we thank Him, because he clears that the native Rums of his time at Anatolia, have no connection with anything Turkish.

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..."Effendi Salah al-Din, said the Master [Rumi], you must hire Greek workmen for this construction. It is for the work of demolition that Turkish workmen must be hired. For the construction of the world is special to the Greeks, and the demolition of this same world is reserved to the Turks. When God created the universe, he first made the carefree infidels. He gave them a long life and considerable force in such a fashion... that in the manner of paid workmen they constructed the earthly world. They erected numerous cities and mountain fortresses...so that after centuries these constructions serve as models to the men of recent times. But divine predestination has disposed of affairs in such a way that little by little the constructions become ruins. He created the people of the Turks in order to demolish, without respect or pity, all the constructions which they see. They have done this and are still doing it. They shall continue to do it day in and day out until the day of the Resurrection." ... Eflaki, II, 208-9.

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The refer of Eflaki for Rums of his time disconnect them from Turks.

This Muslim anecdote is quite symbolic. The Greek workmen represent the Christian society of local Rums of Asia Minor; the Turkish workmen symbolize the Turkmen nomads who caused such destruction and displacement to the Local Greek society. It was Jalal al-Din and his followers that save this description of Rums identity and local Greek civilization.

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I AM REMARKING THAT THE QUOTATION OF ARTHUR KOESTLER, WAS SUCH A HARD PUNCH IN YOUR BRAINS, THAT YOU CANNOT ACCEPT THE CLEAR AND OBVIOUS FACTS HE IS DETERMINING. IN STEAD OF ACCEPTING HIS FACTS, YOU KEEP ON WITH THE CHANGING OF SUBJECT MODE, YOU ARE SO PREDICTABLE

The point of this gory tale is to show the influence which the Khazars at this stage exercised over the destinies of the East Roman Empire - in addition to their role as defenders of the Caucasian bulwark against the Muslims. Bardanes-Philippicus was an emperor of the Khazars' making, and the end ofjustinian's reign of terror was brought about by his brother-in-law, the Kagan.

[TurkmenCopur]

Very clear, can not prove that Vardanis is a produce of Khazars, because he was not.

Vardanes , had once before made a revolution, he failed and he exiled, at Kefalonia.

Later at 711 was recalled from exile and sent by Emperor Justinian II in Kherson of Crimea to quell an attitude.
There he won the support of notables Romans/Byzantines of the region but also of the Khazars, and he made again a revolution, succeed at this time.

How does Bardanes (reign 711 to 713) is a khazars' making?

Do Khazars planned his revolution? no, Bardanes did.

Khazars just support him. As also the notables Romans/Byzantines of Kherson.

Support him does not mean 'making' him, because noone 'making' him.

Support him did not brought any control of Khazars to Roman/Byzantine state, or the opposite. Otherwise prove it.

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You are so pathetic, and make no sense. Read this page for more information: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1773

Learn english, if you cant understand or interprete this text, seek help, i am not your teacher... End of the point.

The point of this gory tale is to show the influence which the Khazars at this stage exercised over the destinies of the East Roman Empire - in addition to their role as defenders of the Caucasian bulwark against the Muslims. Bardanes-Philippicus was an emperor of the Khazars' making, and the end ofjustinian's reign of terror was brought about by his brother-in-law, the Kagan.